===== Open Log 2008-06-01T</p> <p>21:20:56.536514Z =====
</p> <p>[14:08]  Talarus Luan: OK. Let's get started.
</p> <p>[14:08]  rm Sirbu: hi all
</p> <p>[14:08]  Rem Nightfire: hi rm
</p> <p>[14:09]  Klaatu Congrejo: Hi rm.
</p> <p>[14:09]  Talarus Luan: First, I want to apologize for being a little slack this week. My mall is in crunch mode, and is about to be complete and open, so my time has been a tad limited. It is also why we need as much participation from everyone we can get. I don't want this movement to hinge on one or even a handful of people.
</p> <p>[14:09]  Kyrion Yalin: Greetings
</p> <p>[14:09]  Timo Daehlie: welcom kyrion ;)
</p> <p>[14:10]  Talarus Luan: If I get mashed on the freeway, it needs to continue unabated. :P
</p> <p>[14:10]  Kyrion Yalin: and i appologise for beeing late,
</p> <p>[14:10]  Hekate Galatea: I'd think people would swerve around you, Talarus.
</p> <p>[14:10]  Talarus Luan: You've obviously never driven in Atlanta traffic. :P
</p> <p>[14:10]  Rem Nightfire: haha
</p> <p>[14:10]  Hekate Galatea: Nope...sounds like I'm ok missing out though.
</p> <p>[14:10]  Jeffrey Gomez: Might I remind you that Miami traffic can be so much worse.
</p> <p>[14:11]  Talarus Luan: The first item on the agenda will be there from now on as a permanent item: "News from the War Front"
</p> <p>[14:11]  Timo Daehlie: lol
</p> <p>[14:12]  Talarus Luan: This is so we can keep abreast of what is going on all around with the Lindens as well as the adfarmers.
</p> <p>[14:12]  Talarus Luan: I am not sure if you all knew, but Rvu Naglo/Denideny Boa was suspended sometime last week for a few days.
</p> <p>[14:12]  Talarus Luan: However, she is back with a vengeance.
</p> <p>[14:13]  Rem Nightfire: ahh prince and rn footman to then?
</p> <p>[14:13]  Talarus Luan: With a new alt and a new group, "PLandz", owned by "Rn Footman"...
</p> <p>[14:13]  Timo Daehlie: yeah all her alts were banned
</p> <p>[14:13]  Rem Nightfire: yes hes a nasty one 14 days?
</p> <p>[14:13]  Timo Daehlie: she placed objects with scripts that kept me and other harrasing even when we were not at out own land
</p> <p>[14:13]  Rem Nightfire: wonderful
</p> <p>[14:14]  Talarus Luan: Apparently, she is quite butthurt over it, and has jumped all her prices up to even more amusing levels, plus has turned on banlines on all of them
</p> <p>[14:14]  Rem Nightfire: yes 9999 L for 64 m
</p> <p>[14:14]  Timo Daehlie: for the ones who work with more alts she has a camp spot in Lutaldo ..
</p> <p>[14:14]  Timo Daehlie: can earn some stolen L$ back
</p> <p>[14:14]  Talarus Luan: L$19999 for a 4x16 corner cut in Great Pubnico and a L$4995 16sqm next to my mall that used to be owned by Kalyrra heart / Primlands
</p> <p>[14:15]  Klaatu Congrejo: Banlines on 16s are another method of extorting money, so ppl will buy to get rid of them.
</p> <p>[14:15]  Talarus Luan: yes
</p> <p>[14:15]  Timo Daehlie: hello lissa .. have a seat
</p> <p>[14:15]  Rem Nightfire: lovely yes short fuse there we can exploit that
</p> <p>[14:15]  Lissa Fallon: Thanks
</p> <p>[14:15]  Talarus Luan: Last weeks' meeting with Jack Linden was a non-event for us; Jack asked that adfarming not be a topic for that meeting, so we were quiet about it.
</p> <p>[14:16]  Rem Nightfire: hmmmm
</p> <p>[14:16]  Timo Daehlie: proabably cause of Tag's presency over there
</p> <p>[14:16]  Timo Daehlie: welcom drongle ;)
</p> <p>[14:16]  Klaatu Congrejo: Talarus, would Jack be open to a proposal specifically FOR adfarming discussion?
</p> <p>[14:16]  Talarus Luan: Well, he said he wanted to give time to other concerns, so we felt it a valid request.. for that time.
</p> <p>[14:17]  Klaatu Congrejo: Hi Drongle!
</p> <p>[14:17]  Drongle McMahon: hi
</p> <p>[14:17]  Talarus Luan: We've submitted proposals to him about that, and he's said he would consider a special meeting for that.
</p> <p>[14:17]  Klaatu Congrejo: Great!
</p> <p>[14:17]  Klaatu Congrejo: would it help if we petitioned him on that?
</p> <p>[14:17]  Hekate Galatea: Maybe you should suggest a "town meeting" type setup, open to all concerned
</p> <p>[14:17]  Talarus Luan: However, the proposal we've been trying to get together was meant to be based on data from Yohan Pintens, but we have yet to receive that data.
</p> <p>[14:18]  Talarus Luan: Well, his office hours more or less are that.
</p> <p>[14:18]  Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, a town hall meeting would be ideal!
</p> <p>[14:18]  Hekate Galatea: A town meeting would be more specific, and if it's "official" then the word would get out better.
</p> <p>[14:18]  Rem Nightfire: what is the data?
</p> <p>[14:19]  Klaatu Congrejo: This is obviously a big issue in LL if Jack has specifically requested that topic NOT be discussed at an office hours meeting.
</p> <p>[14:19]  Timo Daehlie: IM rem ;)
</p> <p>[14:19]  Talarus Luan: It would be nice if it was a big, publicly-announced hoodoo, but we've yet to convince him of the need, which is why we need the data first.
</p> <p>[14:19]  Jeffrey Gomez: (Actually it has been since as long as I can remember. I can quote a couple hundred old General threads on it, and at least one town hall)
</p> <p>[14:19]  Talarus Luan: Data on the number of plots owned by the enemy, where they are, sizes, etc. Basically real, hard statistics.
</p> <p>[14:20]  Klaatu Congrejo: Really? Would be useful to go over all those old texts to see what developed from them.
</p> 
<p>[14:20] Jeffrey Gomez: In my experience, the Lindens are fairly open to the 
  problem, provided those statistics are in play. </p> <p>21:</p> <p>21:10 Jeffrey Gomez: Robin 
  would be the best contact. </p> <p>21:</p> <p>21:08 Jeffrey Gomez: However, they lean more toward 
  technical fixes than social ones. </p> <p>21:</p> <p>21:12 Talarus Luan: Sorry, forgot to start 
  the log. I will edit in the first part manually </p> <p>21:</p> <p>21:46 Timo Daehlie: we dont 
  start over i hope ;) </p> <p>21:</p> <p>22:40 Talarus Luan: Anyway, we are continually keeping 
  ourselves and our efforts and issues in front of the Lindens, and specifically 
  Jack Linden, who will be key in any policy effort coming from their side of 
  the table. </p> <p>21:23:44 Talarus Luan: Alright. Do you all have any news from any 
  of your fronts to share? </p> <p>21:23:47 Hekate Galatea: I wonder if it would be feasable 
  to gather a group of landmarks of trouble spots, then take one of them on a 
  guided tour. </p> <p>21:24:13 Talarus Luan: That is good collected evidence, as are 
  screenshots </p> <p>21:24:18 Jeffrey Gomez: It's a shame the old police blotter writeups 
  are no more. Those would be the perfect areas for public shaming. </p> <p>21:24:24 Klaatu 
  Congrejo: Cytherea now selling small 256 landplots next to 256m gardens. </p> <p>21:24:36 
  Rem Nightfire: the one on one work with nieghbors is happening almost everywhere 
  i have plots </p> <p>21:24:51 Talarus Luan: That's great, Rem. :) </p> <p>21:25:01 Klaatu Congrejo: 
  SShe retains ownership of the garden (for future sale in my opinion) but advertises 
  the for sale bit as "..bext tio lovely garden.." </p> <p>21:25:20 Talarus Luan: If everyone 
  we involve can do that, this effort will achieve a great deal of success. :) 
  </p> <p>21:25:26 Rem Nightfire: intereting </p> <p>21:25:31 Rem Nightfire: greenwashing? </p> <p>21:25:39 
  Klaatu Congrejo: Yeah! ha ha </p> <p>21:26:48 Talarus Luan: Oh. Another news item. I 
  don't know how widespread this farmer is, but Tuyako Eales has gone through 
  her 16s in and around Great Pubnico and jumped the prices up to L$20000 each. 
  </p> <p>21:26:56 Talarus Luan: AKA "TE Realty" </p> <p>21:27:03 Rem Nightfire: ha </p> <p>21:27:03 Klaatu 
  Congrejo: Great support from lots of ppl on my travels. Everyone seems happy 
  to see we are replacing adplots with small parks. They feel angry when they 
  see landcutters cutting up their local land. </p> <p>21:27:14 Timo Daehlie: dont mix 
  up with TD Realty please </p> <p>21:27:40 Talarus Luan: I mentioned to her in IM that 
  she should REALLY make it impressive, like set them to L$1000000 </p> <p>21:27:47 Rem 
  Nightfire: haha </p> <p>21:27:49 Jeffrey Gomez: Sounds like a deliberate troll to me. 
  Wonder what the policy is on name squating. </p> <p>21:27:56 Hekate Galatea: Oooh oooh! 
  I'd buy it! </p> <p>21:28:02 Hekate Galatea: Just to be cool. </p> <p>21:28:07 Talarus Luan: 
  Hehe </p> <p>21:28:11 Klaatu Congrejo: Hmmm, I know ROBO has got a couple L$9999999 
  16s around. </p> <p>21:28:16 Timo Daehlie: there is one in the zoo for 100k for sale 
  </p> <p>21:28:25 Timo Daehlie: yeps could be 1M too </p> <p>21:28:36 Hekate Galatea: Robo lost 
  some of his little plots near my land in Dongjeong. It went maintenance. </p> <p>21:28:40 
  Talarus Luan: OK. If there are no more news items, moving on to the next part... 
  new materials and builds. </p> <p>21:28:44 Rem Nightfire: we should give a prize to 
  the highest price </p> <p>21:29:02 Timo Daehlie: hehehhe </p> <p>21:29:05 Talarus Luan: I wrote 
  up a notecard today as a draft to be offered to existing landowners in the grid-sweep. 
  </p> <p>21:29:10 Hekate Galatea: I could put up a weekly feature in the blog, with a 
  picture and info </p> <p>21:29:15 Rem Nightfire: great </p> <p>21:29:17 Talarus Luan: It's in 
  the "Propaganda Draft" cone </p> <p>21:29:20 Klaatu Congrejo: I think ROBO has developed 
  a twitch in his typing finger, so I forgive his outrageous prices, ha ha </p> <p>21:29:31 
  Timo Daehlie: yes let us all put some more interactivity on hekates blog </p> <p>21:29:35 
  Talarus Luan: That would be cool, Hekate </p> <p>21:30:01 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, sorry 
  Hekate - don't visit the blog as often as I should. </p> <p>21:30:05 Talarus Luan: One 
  of the Ad Zoo members has been sending me some snapshot evidence of new cuts 
  as he finds them </p> <p>21:30:27 Hekate Galatea: That would be great to post - a permanent 
  place to gather the information. </p> <p>21:30:30 Talarus Luan: Kaeru Yosuke </p> <p>21:30:40 
  Timo Daehlie: the spanish guy </p> <p>21:31:00 Hekate Galatea: If we all start putting 
  up what we see, the blog could be a great resource. One-stop shopping for information. 
  </p> <p>21:31:35 Timo Daehlie: i will sign up after meeting .. promised hekate ;) </p> <p>21:31:55 
  Talarus Luan: Well, if someone wants to act as a repository for the landmark 
  idea, as well as screenshots. I keep a lot of them, as does Timo </p> <p>21:32:00 Hekate 
  Galatea: promises, promises. </p> <p>21:32:10 Timo Daehlie: lol </p> <p>21:32:14 Rem Nightfire: 
  the notes are great talarus </p> <p>21:32:24 Shaira Babii: it's not easy to make a landmark 
  when you can't enter the land </p> <p>21:32:32 Talarus Luan: SLURL </p> <p>21:32:36 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: So make a... right. </p> <p>21:32:45 Talarus Luan: Works just as good </p> <p>21:32:49 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Well. </p> <p>21:32:50 Shaira Babii: ok </p> <p>21:32:52 Hekate Galatea: Good 
  thinking. </p> <p>21:33:31 Jeffrey Gomez: Bonus points for including a snapshot, and 
  decent angle on the plot. ;) </p> <p>21:33:53 Timo Daehlie: incl adfarmer ;) </p> <p>21:34:00 
  Klaatu Congrejo: So whats the landmark proposal Talarus? Is it a site in a region 
  for ppl to get information? I think we already have that. </p> <p>21:34:07 Talarus Luan: 
  At the end of the draft, I have placed the list of organizations involved in 
  the movement. Like we talked about, we want to include everyone's efforts, and 
  put them together as a concerted whole. </p> <p>21:34:15 Jeffrey Gomez: Careful not 
  to run afoul of the old "naming names" policy LL has. </p> <p>21:34:39 Talarus Luan: 
  No, the earlier suggestion about collecting landmarks to the problem child spots 
  that we find for the Lindens to show for evidence. </p> <p>21:34:58 Klaatu Congrejo: 
  OH, sorry - lost the thread there. </p> <p>21:35:16 Talarus Luan: Naming names policy 
  doesn't apply outside of SL, nor does it apply to conversation. </p> <p>21:35:34 Talarus 
  Luan: Only in LL/SL publications, like forums, the blog, etc </p> <p>21:35:48 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: I am well aware. Just saying ^ </p> <p>21:35:58 Jeffrey Gomez: It's an easy line 
  to cross. </p> <p>21:36:02 Talarus Luan: Aye, we're staying within the ToS </p> <p>21:36:07 
  Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, and most ppl know of whom we speak when we say adfarmers, 
  landcutters, etc.... </p> <p>21:36:19 Hekate Galatea: Even in the blog, as long as we 
  don't say, "he's a bad bad man" it should be ok. Just say, this person is doing 
  this thing. Just the facts. They speak for themselves. </p> <p>21:36:26 Talarus Luan: 
  We've committed from the get-go to play by the rules, whether our enemy does 
  or not </p> <p>21:36:43 Talarus Luan: Well, I meant LL's blog, not ours. ;) </p> <p>21:37:03 
  Hekate Galatea: Yeah, but even there, stating facts should not be forbidden. 
  </p> <p>21:37:05 Talarus Luan: We're free to say whatever we want in ours, within the 
  law, of course. ;) </p> <p>21:37:</p> <p>22 Hekate Galatea: (Propaganda is now a page on the 
  blog, by the way) </p> <p>21:37:27 Jeffrey Gomez: Convince LL they're running gambling. 
  ;) </p> <p>21:37:29 Talarus Luan: Well, you would be surprised. Timo was warned over 
  naming names in the Ad Zoo here. </p> <p>21:37:37 Timo Daehlie: yeps </p> <p>21:37:55 Talarus 
  Luan: It was all true, but they didn't care. They considered it harassment </p> <p>21:38:13 
  Hekate Galatea: I would too, if you put up a piggy picture of me! </p> <p>21:38:25 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: Two wrongs don't make a right, but three left turns do? </p> <p>21:38:27 Timo 
  Daehlie: hehehehe ;)) </p> <p>21:38:29 Talarus Luan: Though I do admit some of our initial 
  descriptive notecards used creative depictions. ;) </p> <p>21:39:06 Talarus Luan: Anyway. 
  Does anyone else have any other materials or creations to present for the group's 
  consumption? :) </p> <p>21:39:42 Rem Nightfire: found a great ad tower sewage treatment 
  plant on LL rte 1 </p> <p>21:39:51 Talarus Luan: A wha? </p> <p>21:40:01 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, 
  Rem found it yesterday. Its great. </p> <p>21:40:05 Rem Nightfire: tell em kc i forgot 
  who made it </p> <p>21:40:12 Talarus Luan: Screenshot? :P </p> <p>21:40:19 Klaatu Congrejo: 
  I sent a message to the creator, trying to get him/her to get involved here. 
  </p> <p>21:40:24 Shaira Babii: I found a terrible place in Mullett </p> <p>21:40:39 Shaira Babii: 
  Planz corners </p> <p>21:40:59 Klaatu Congrejo: Its like a sewage plant... with vats 
  of coloured liquid in the top, and down below is raw sewage coming out. </p> <p>21:41:07 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Systematically speaking, you should collect the common names 
  for these objects and run a spider. </p> <p>21:41:16 Timo Daehlie: i go look later on 
  Rem ;) </p> <p>21:41:17 Klaatu Congrejo: The vat of liquid represent melted down ads 
  of course. </p> <p>21:41:36 Talarus Luan: Hehe. </p> <p>21:41:43 Talarus Luan: Thanks :) </p> <p>21:41:47 
  Jeffrey Gomez: I highly doubt the ad farmers use different names for each object. 
  Or a difficult enough system such that a simple regex couldn't handle it. </p> <p>21:41:58 
  Hekate Galatea: I used to have something like that...pipes that had water going 
  in clear, out nasty green </p> <p>21:42:01 Jeffrey Gomez: That would be the quick and 
  efficient route to categorization. </p> <p>21:42:04 Klaatu Congrejo: Maybe you can distribute 
  that LM Talarus. Very interesting installation. </p> <p>21:42:24 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, 
  same sort of idea Hekte. </p> <p>21:42:26 Talarus Luan: Well, finding their objects 
  isn't a problem, nor is finding the land cutter's work.. just open the map :-/ 
  </p> <p>21:42:35 Talarus Luan: I'll do that :) </p> <p>21:42:57 Jeffrey Gomez: It's more a question 
  of aggregation and statistics. </p> <p>21:43:32 Jeffrey Gomez: I would bet money that 
  at least half of SL's mainland sims have at least one ad far. </p> <p>21:43:35 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: +m </p> <p>21:43:45 Talarus Luan: OK. How about planned materials? Something 
  we will need is a packet of info to give to newbies in the Welcome areas. </p> <p>21:43:59 
  Timo Daehlie: if not more </p> <p>21:44:01 Rem Nightfire: yes thats around 7000 </p> <p>21:44:03 
  Hekate Galatea: I'm terrified - rat run has been free of ads so far, but the 
  entire top coast is for sale now. </p> <p>21:44:09 Jeffrey Gomez: I suggest blinders. 
  </p> <p>21:44:27 Timo Daehlie: average is 7 x 16m2 per region mainland </p> <p>21:44:39 Talarus 
  Luan: No, I mean to educate them on how to buy land and NOT to buy extortionist 
  plots </p> <p>21:44:53 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>21:45:05 Jeffrey Gomez: You take me too seriously. 
  :) </p> <p>21:45:08 Talarus Luan: I don't want their eyes closed. I want them open. 
  </p> <p>21:45:11 Timo Daehlie: :)) </p> <p>21:45:35 Hekate Galatea: Maybe in the box we can 
  put in rose colored glasses. </p> <p>21:45:36 Talarus Luan: Well, even as a joke, a 
  lot of people think that way. That's really the problem. Combatting innocent 
  ignorance. :) </p> <p>21:45:41 Talarus Luan: Hehe </p> <p>21:45:52 Jeffrey Gomez: You're discussing 
  a systematic problem based on supply and demand. The most basic means is to 
  offer an alternative. </p> <p>21:46:06 Hekate Galatea: Offer personal help maybe. </p> <p>21:46:08 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Such as a series of ad-free sims with available land. </p> <p>21:46:23 
  Jeffrey Gomez: I'm sure Azure Islands would *love* the business. </p> <p>21:46:52 Klaatu 
  Congrejo: I chatted with someone ealier in week who was getting out of SL because 
  it was now mostly run by the advertisers. So sad, she had nice little houses 
  and gardens around. But sh'es given up because of adfarms. Grrrr. </p> <p>21:46:59 Hekate 
  Galatea: When I first bought land, I had no idea. I would have loved if someone 
  had been there to check out the prospects with me and say it was good or bad. 
  </p> <p>21:47:16 Jeffrey Gomez: The other half of this problem has been discussed for 
  over three years now. </p> <p>21:47:23 Jeffrey Gomez: Including very specific proposals. 
  </p> <p>21:47:28 Jeffrey Gomez: Let me list some from memory. </p> <p>21:47:38 Jeffrey Gomez: 
  * The ability to ignore the objects of others </p> <p>21:47:56 Jeffrey Gomez: (A very 
  simple patch to the SL client, may I add) </p> <p>21:48:03 Shaira Babii: every time 
  a neigbor sell I feel forced to buy it, to prevent a cutter coming near </p> <p>21:48:20 
  Talarus Luan: Yeah, me too, Shaira, and I do. :) </p> <p>21:48:26 Jeffrey Gomez: * Disabling 
  the ability to tack certain permissions onto land unless it's above a specific 
  size </p> <p>21:48:39 Hekate Galatea: I can't afford land in my sim. It's way to much. 
  </p> <p>21:48:41 Drongle McMahon: Same here Shaira </p> <p>21:49:05 Jeffrey Gomez: And the most 
  important idea is solving the economic problem of making such things no longer 
  viable. </p> <p>21:49:15 Jeffrey Gomez: Educating newbies is one route. But there are 
  others, as well </p> <p>21:49:17 Talarus Luan: Unfortunately, I paid a lot to Elea Martinek's 
  alt, Eira Ryba, last week. </p> <p>21:49:34 Klaatu Congrejo: Also Jeffrey... * the ability 
  to NOT sell your land to certain individuals. Though that one has been shown 
  to be mostly unworkable because of alts. </p> <p>21:49:39 Talarus Luan: yes, educating 
  newbies is one vector of our efforts </p> <p>21:50:03 Hekate Galatea: I've got to walk 
  the pug, Back in a few minutes </p> <p>21:50:05 Talarus Luan: The other main vector 
  is literally rolling like a wave over the mainland and meeting with every landowned 
  we can in every sim </p> <p>21:50:13 Rem Nightfire: i dont know why LL wont go with 
  a voluntary LandTrust </p> <p>21:50:17 Jeffrey Gomez: The evil route would be to DMCA 
  their ads. But that's abusing the system somewhat :p </p> <p>21:50:29 Klaatu Congrejo: 
  My solution to that is to advise ppl to put their land for sale at a HIGH price, 
  but say in Land Options you will lower the price if buyer contacts you with 
  proposal. </p> <p>21:50:35 Talarus Luan: Give them the info, talk to them. Give them 
  the tools and the will to fight </p> <p>21:50:39 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>21:50:42 Klaatu 
  Congrejo: That way, you retain some control over WHO buys the land. </p> <p>21:50:56 
  Talarus Luan: I offer to neighbors first :) </p> <p>21:51:32 Shaira Babii: why are they 
  defending the right to advertise , the ads in SL is to compare with email spam, 
  not real life ads where the ads finance things </p> <p>21:51:38 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, 
  and you usually find neighbours are the first to step in and offer to buy from 
  yo anyway. </p> <p>21:51:53 Talarus Luan: Moving along here.. let's see. We need to 
  finish up and gather all of our materials together, and start implementing our 
  strategies. </p> <p>21:52:02 Klaatu Congrejo: Exactly Shaira, I agree. </p> <p>21:52:29 Talarus 
  Luan: yes, advertising in SL is most often a cover for other illicit business. 
  </p> <p>21:52:37 Shaira Babii: I can stand ads on TV if I have to pay less for the programs 
  </p> <p>21:52:44 Jeffrey Gomez: It's a fairly easy case to prove extortion. </p> <p>21:52:48 
  Jeffrey Gomez: The problem is not that. </p> <p>21:52:50 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>21:53:06 
  Jeffrey Gomez: The problem is the Lindens *do not* want to create a gigantic 
  support crisis for themselves. </p> <p>21:53:17 Talarus Luan: Shaira.. have you read 
  the advertising proposal I made. It's at the end of the document in the "Touch 
  for proposals" cone. </p> <p>21:53:</p> <p>21 Talarus Luan: ? </p> <p>21:53:29 Shaira Babii: well, just 
  don't allow it and there is no support needed </p> <p>21:53:33 Jeffrey Gomez: The other, 
  more highly amusing (and irritating part( </p> <p>21:53:38 Jeffrey Gomez: -( + ) </p> <p>21:53:39 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Is. </p> <p>21:53:53 Jeffrey Gomez: Isn't this why the Lindens put in 
  that hardware hash a bit ago? </p> <p>21:54:14 Shaira Babii: they listen to BFI anyway, 
  regarding some porn </p> <p>21:54:16 Talarus Luan: That is useless for the most part. 
  One recompiled client and it is circumvented </p> <p>21:54:23 Jeffrey Gomez: Yes. </p> <p>21:54:33 
  Jeffrey Gomez: But you doubt the power of requiring effort. </p> <p>21:54:42 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: :) </p> <p>21:54:43 Talarus Luan: All it takes is one person </p> <p>21:55:06 Talarus 
  Luan: Never NEVER underestimate the enemy's drive to make a buck. </p> <p>21:55:</p> <p>22 Talarus 
  Luan: One of them will make it, and share it with the rest </p> <p>21:55:25 Shaira Babii: 
  and seling things for 1000 times the value is things you get jaailed for outside 
  SL </p> <p>21:55:43 Timo Daehlie: yeah </p> <p>21:56:02 Timo Daehlie: if you put a diaper bag 
  tower in my area it will get burned </p> <p>21:57:00 Klaatu Congrejo: Ha! yes I saw 
  them Timo. Cytherea got a warped sense of humour!! </p> <p>21:57:06 Jeffrey Gomez: The 
  problem, of course, is you're discussing mitigation. </p> <p>21:57:15 Jeffrey Gomez: 
  A systematic fix would be required to remove all. </p> <p>21:57:28 Timo Daehlie: she 
  might get 1 us$ cent per click </p> <p>21:57:30 Talarus Luan: Alright.. we're getting 
  a little away from the agenda. :) Let's talk about strategies. Right now, several 
  of you are already out there, meeting with residents where you have lands. We 
  need to spread that effort to every region on the mainland. :) </p> <p>21:58:04 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: I'll get right on the gray goo campaign. ;) </p> <p>21:58:15 Shaira Babii: at 
  least a few hours I did :-) </p> <p>21:58:27 Klaatu Congrejo: At this point I'd like 
  to say it seems we are not making much progress. But it is slow work, and I 
  feel we are moving slowly forward - which is important. </p> <p>21:58:36 Talarus Luan: 
  To that end, we probably should divide up the mainland in to several sub areas, 
  each with a manageable number of regions, say like 100. </p> <p>21:58:50 Klaatu Congrejo: 
  Sorry, just wanted to say that for those who think this may be just a talkfest. 
  </p> <p>21:58:53 Talarus Luan: I can hit 100 regions in a week. </p> <p>21:59:11 Shaira Babii: 
  you ave wings </p> <p>21:59:15 Shaira Babii: *have </p> <p>21:59:</p> <p>21 Timo Daehlie: my bot can 
  do 80 regions a minute </p> <p>21:59:31 Rem Nightfire: good idea nad the buying of checkerboards 
  in freshly cut areas is a good way to spread ourselves around </p> <p>21:59:35 Talarus 
  Luan: Well, I mean meeting with and talking to neighbors. </p> <p>21:59:45 Talarus Luan: 
  Handing out notecards </p> <p>21:59:47 Jeffrey Gomez: Klaatu: It's not a talk fest. 
  This is a serious problem spanning years. I hope I'm not the one bothering ya. 
  </p> <p>21:59:51 Timo Daehlie: Annie can talk too </p> <p>21:59:55 Timo Daehlie: "her name" 
  </p> <p>22:00:08 Talarus Luan: Offerring our tools and info. </p> <p>22:00:34 Shaira Babii: 
  I need a good toolbox </p> <p>22:00:35 Talarus Luan: So, before we really start sending 
  people out to get around, we really need to make it quick and painless to hand 
  out our materials and info. </p> <p>22:00:41 Shaira Babii: it should help alot </p> <p>22:00:58 
  Talarus Luan: But, once we have that, the divide-and-conquer approach will be 
  the order of the day. </p> <p>22:01:03 Rem Nightfire: with 8 to 10 plots in a cut up 
  512 you can control that area pretty well with info and panels if need be </p> <p>22:01:15 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Dumb question. </p> <p>22:01:26 Jeffrey Gomez: Does anyone know where 
  they're receiving ads from? </p> <p>22:01:45 Jeffrey Gomez: It would be pretty amusing 
  to slip an anti-ad into the ad network. </p> <p>22:02:02 Hekate Galatea: Yes it would 
  be. </p> <p>22:02:</p> <p>21 Talarus Luan: We also need some way of keeping track of folks, 
  to make sure we don't duplicate talking to people, lest they get spammed, IE, 
  because they have land in more than one region which someone else gets assigned 
  to talk with them. </p> <p>22:02:46 Shaira Babii: I was trying to ask about the permission 
  of returned land block, but got no answer, why can't land be set to a default 
  perm when returned, so it, not a public sandbox for ads </p> <p>22:03:07 Talarus Luan: 
  Well, realize that extortionists with ad networks are not as prevalent as they 
  used to be </p> <p>22:03:17 Shaira Babii: many lands in maintinance is full of ads </p> <p>22:03:25 
  Talarus Luan: Shaira: They are supposed to come by and do that. </p> <p>22:03:27 Hekate 
  Galatea: That is true. </p> <p>22:03:34 Shaira Babii: they have no tome </p> <p>22:03:44 Shaira 
  Babii: time </p> <p>22:03:53 Shaira Babii: (sorry for my spellings :-) </p> <p>22:03:54 Hekate 
  Galatea: Do they really though? It took me asking about it specifically to get 
  them to take care of land in dongjeong </p> <p>22:04:03 Talarus Luan: Just need to put 
  in a ticket to LL and put "Linden Land" in the summary </p> <p>22:04:30 Shaira Babii: 
  it can me made when someone click on abandon land </p> <p>22:04:42 Talarus Luan: They 
  are way behind on tickets, but they usually do reset the land perms to restrictive. 
  </p> <p>22:04:57 Hekate Galatea: It really should be automatic. </p> <p>22:05:00 Shaira Babii: 
  removes banliones and refuse publix rez </p> <p>22:05:05 Talarus Luan: or set it to 
  be auctioned or offer it to adjacent landowners, etc </p> <p>22:05:17 Hekate Galatea: 
  It seems like the default on land should be to restrict non-owners from building 
  there. </p> <p>22:05:43 Talarus Luan: Might be a good idea to put in a JIRA for that. 
  :) </p> <p>22:05:57 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, that SHOULD be the default Hekate. But seems 
  not to be common practice by LL. </p> <p>22:06:00 Jeffrey Gomez: Wait. They haven't 
  fixed that? </p> <p>22:06:12 Jeffrey Gomez: I'm positive new land releases were fixed 
  so that didn't happen anymore. </p> <p>22:06:16 Timo Daehlie: in Q3 things will go faster 
  </p> <p>22:06:17 Jeffrey Gomez: Or were for a time. </p> <p>22:06:23 Timo Daehlie: they will 
  double the governance team </p> <p>22:06:31 Talarus Luan: Abandoned land </p> <p>22:06:40 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: I know. </p> <p>22:06:49 Jeffrey Gomez: It's a comparison by analogy. </p> <p>22:06:51 
  Talarus Luan: I haven't tested it, myself </p> <p>22:07:</p> <p>22 Talarus Luan: But don't forget 
  that there is a lot of effectively abandoned land still owned by dead accounts 
  </p> <p>22:07:26 Hekate Galatea: It's also odd that land that has been abandoned doesn't 
  get rid of the build. So maintenance land still has ads, even though the ad-builder 
  is long gone. </p> <p>22:07:57 Shaira Babii: in one region I planted flowers until all 
  prims was used on a linden owned land :-) </p> <p>22:08:11 Talarus Luan: OK. So back 
  to strategizing here. Obviously, we need a lot more bodies to make this quicker. 
  Any ideas how we can recruit more people? </p> <p>22:08:37 Talarus Luan: One of my thoughts 
  is that we will pick up more people as we spread across the grid, as part of 
  the propaganda takes into account. </p> <p>22:08:41 Klaatu Congrejo: There's some abandoned 
  land in Sekmet region taken over by Gov. Linden. It surrounds a bunch of ads. 
  Gov.Linden has put banlines on their land to stop access to the ads, lol. </p> <p>22:08:47 
  Timo Daehlie: well i can ask Takumi of arbor to get more involved </p> <p>22:08:52 Rem 
  Nightfire: the best way is to make our presence as far and wide as possible 
  and people will come to us </p> <p>22:08:55 Timo Daehlie: thats 400 arbor members </p> <p>22:08:58 
  Klaatu Congrejo: Would like to know which Linden did THAT - sounds like a friend 
  to have! </p> <p>22:09:37 Talarus Luan: Another point is that we can try focusing on 
  getting one landowner in every region that we can on board to basically become 
  the evangelizer in his region for us. </p> <p>22:10:24 Timo Daehlie: by working in the 
  field more people will join us naturally </p> <p>22:10:30 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>22:10:38 
  Talarus Luan: Aye, I am hoping for that. :) </p> <p>22:10:40 Timo Daehlie: its up to 
  us to go outside and seed our first efforts </p> <p>22:10:42 Klaatu Congrejo: On the 
  infonotes on all my lands Talarus I got links to our groups and how ppl can 
  get involved. </p> <p>22:11:00 Talarus Luan: However, the more irons in the fire, the 
  more branding we can do. :) </p> <p>22:11:08 Klaatu Congrejo: I prefer to spread the 
  word that way - rather than spam all the neighbours with notes. </p> <p>22:11:26 Rem 
  Nightfire: we need a map of the mainland that shows where we are and where we 
  need to be </p> <p>22:11:44 Shaira Babii: maybe vendors that sell houses, castles and 
  so can be drafted </p> <p>22:11:49 Talarus Luan: Oh, that reminds me, I need a list 
  of all the organizations involved, as shown on the bottom of the propaganda. 
  </p> <p>22:11:52 Shaira Babii: so they put up info </p> <p>22:12:00 Timo Daehlie: we can divide 
  it in continents </p> <p>22:12:01 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, where do we get the most up 
  to date maps of SL? I got one thats about a year old. </p> <p>22:12:43 Timo Daehlie: 
  its possible </p> <p>22:12:48 Talarus Luan: Yes, we are recruiting realtors :) </p> <p>22:12:53 
  Talarus Luan: Timo, Sarah Nerd </p> <p>22:13:28 Kyrion Yalin: I know some portuguese 
  people who has interesting SL blogs. I can ask them to post on them, posts we 
  write. And, if you agree, can invite one or two more portuguese people to our 
  meettings </p> <p>22:13:35 Talarus Luan: Timo is acting as liaison to the realtors, 
  since he knows many of them very well </p> <p>22:13:54 Talarus Luan: That would be cool, 
  Hyrion :) </p> <p>22:13:58 Talarus Luan: *Kyrion </p> <p>22:13:59 Klaatu Congrejo: Great Kyrion. 
  </p> <p>22:14:15 Rem Nightfire: any luck with the japanese group? </p> <p>22:14:17 Kyrion Yalin: 
  ok, i ll do that </p> <p>22:14:</p> <p>22 Timo Daehlie: Kaeru was willing to do that for the 
  Spanish people </p> <p>22:14:28 Hekate Galatea: Would it be worthwhile to contact people 
  who have their own sims? They may not directly be affected, but they often can 
  get the word out to anyone renting from them. </p> <p>22:15:01 Klaatu Congrejo: I sent 
  msg to a Japanese group earlier in the week Rem. Not sure if its the same one 
  we were discussing last week though. </p> <p>22:15:05 Talarus Luan: ..and regarding 
  spamming neighbors with notecards, meeting with the ones you can, and sending 
  notecards to the ones you can't (just one notecard) I wouldn't consider really 
  "spamming". </p> <p>22:15:17 Klaatu Congrejo: Agreed talarus. </p> <p>22:15:30 Timo Daehlie: 
  they are involved Hekate </p> <p>22:15:31 Jeffrey Gomez: Provided coverage is consistent, 
  with zero overlap. </p> <p>22:15:42 Shaira Babii: there is a Japanese group that plaant 
  a flower on adfarms, it that what you talk about </p> <p>22:15:45 Rem Nightfire: yes 
  </p> <p>22:15:57 Talarus Luan: I'm pretty allergic to spam, and I most likely would 
  not sneeze over a random notecard given to me offline with something that may 
  be of critical interest to me </p> <p>22:16:02 Timo Daehlie: i spoke to them .. and 
  although many live on privates they still care bout the mainland and will support 
  where needed .. </p> <p>22:16:06 Jeffrey Gomez: The smart thing to do would be a notecard 
  sender tied to a common database. </p> <p>22:16:24 Hekate Galatea: that would be great! 
  </p> <p>22:16:28 Jeffrey Gomez: Which politely informs people that a note was sent already 
  instead of firing one off. </p> <p>22:16:32 Klaatu Congrejo: Talarus, I usually inform 
  everyone in the region whenever I set up a new park. So when they visit they 
  get access to the notecard giver and, if they wish, they can get involved. </p> <p>22:16:40 
  Talarus Luan: Yes, we need to make sure we don't duplicate send notecards to 
  people </p> <p>22:16:43 Talarus Luan: as I mentioned earlier. :) </p> <p>22:16:54 Talarus Luan: 
  Same with making sure we don't duplicate effort and hit the same sims. </p> <p>22:17:12 
  Hekate Galatea: How do the newspaper boxes work? the ones that give out weekly 
  papers? That might be a nice fixture to give away to people, as well as having 
  it on our own land. </p> <p>22:17:18 Talarus Luan: I am hoping we can get a list of 
  mainland sims from somewhere </p> <p>22:17:26 Jeffrey Gomez: You may also want to add 
  a passive scanner to regions near adfarms, to get a running tally of "exposure" 
  statistics. </p> <p>22:17:29 Timo Daehlie: this week ;) </p> <p>22:17:32 Rem Nightfire: slbuzz,com 
  has the list </p> <p>22:17:35 Timo Daehlie: @ talarus </p> <p>22:17:36 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes 
  Talarus, thats a good point. A couple ppl with our same goals have already set 
  up next to me in different regions. </p> <p>22:17:41 Rem Nightfire: slbuzz.com </p> <p>22:17:56 
  Talarus Luan: Aye, we need to bring them together with us. </p> <p>22:18:09 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: Just get Christiano's forum (SL Universe) up in arms about it. </p> <p>22:18:13 
  Jeffrey Gomez: You'll never hear the end of it. </p> <p>22:18:15 Talarus Luan: The more 
  people we have with the same goals working together, the better effect we will 
  have. </p> <p>22:18:18 Jeffrey Gomez: I guarantee it. </p> <p>22:18:30 Talarus Luan: Are you 
  volunteering, Jeffrey? :D </p> <p>22:18:45 Jeffrey Gomez: I don't post there anymore 
  :p </p> <p>22:19:04 Talarus Luan: Aww. You still have an account, though. ;) </p> <p>22:19:10 
  Jeffrey Gomez: They are highly excitable folk. </p> <p>22:19:</p> <p>21 Jeffrey Gomez: And can 
  be "infected" through IRC just as easily. ;) </p> <p>22:20:02 Talarus Luan: OK. So, 
  here's what I see we need to do.. please add/correct as need be: </p> <p>22:20:35 Talarus 
  Luan: We need to finish up our information/tools/assistance materials and package 
  them up. </p> <p>22:</p> <p>21:26 Talarus Luan: Then we need to get the list of mainland sims, 
  and start divvying up areas to start focusing on. </p> <p>22:</p> <p>21:34 Rem Nightfire: yes 
  </p> <p>22:</p> <p>22:28 Rem Nightfire: and iwant to say this one more time if each of us took 
  control of a few cut up areas with checkerboarding - info and panels it would 
  have a big effect </p> <p>22:</p> <p>22:33 Jeffrey Gomez: Tip. Phrase it as a cleanup project, 
  and people become very cooperative. </p> <p>22:</p> <p>22:36 Talarus Luan: I am going to take 
  responsibility for the easternmost area of the old continent, around where my 
  mall is. </p> <p>22:</p> <p>22:46 Talarus Luan: Cleanup project? </p> <p>22:</p> <p>22:54 Jeffrey Gomez: Yep. 
  </p> <p>22:23:12 Talarus Luan: Oh, you mean cleaning up the adfarms and such. We already 
  do. :) </p> <p>22:23:14 Timo Daehlie: improve the area </p> <p>22:23:23 Talarus Luan: That's 
  the whole point. </p> <p>22:23:35 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, checkerboarding is a good tactic. 
  Frustrates the landcutting so they find it hard to sell the rest of their plots 
  in the area too. </p> <p>22:23:49 Rem Nightfire: and attracts neighbors </p> <p>22:23:51 Talarus 
  Luan: Hence Operation Eradicate! and other similar monikers. </p> <p>22:24:05 Hekate 
  Galatea: So, what is the official tagline? </p> <p>22:24:09 Jeffrey Gomez: Pressing 
  the Lindens on fixing the whole "plot creep" problem is also a good course of 
  action. </p> <p>22:24:25 Jeffrey Gomez: Regarding the center of objects being used to 
  calculate their location. </p> <p>22:24:40 Talarus Luan: Mine are all meant to be internal 
  suggestions. I am open to any others for public consumption </p> <p>22:24:43 Klaatu 
  Congrejo: Sounds good points Talarus. We need a 'bug-spray' cartoon to show 
  this 'eradicate' part of the plan. ha ha </p> <p>22:24:46 Jeffrey Gomez: It's a bit 
  harder to adfarm when you are actually restricted to the space you're given 
  :o </p> <p>22:24:59 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>22:25:05 Jeffrey Gomez: And believe me, the day 
  that ticks over, a lot of people will happily press the return key. </p> <p>22:25:11 
  Jeffrey Gomez: It should even be an event. </p> <p>22:25:30 Klaatu Congrejo: Yayy, god 
  day for a party Jeffrey huh? </p> <p>22:25:33 Talarus Luan: Actually, we have very few 
  problems with encroachment </p> <p>22:25:36 Rem Nightfire: and when some adfarmers see 
  we are there they will tend to stay away and the landcutters can eat their tier 
  </p> <p>22:26:08 Talarus Luan: You have to realize, again, that a great deal of the 
  extortion plots are empty. </p> <p>22:26:10 Jeffrey Gomez: I'm not entirely convinced. 
  I see enough spinning 10x10x10 cubes on 4m^2 to warrant it. :) </p> <p>22:26:25 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: But it's not a complete fix. </p> <p>22:26:31 Talarus Luan: Well, that is usually 
  solved by an encroachment AR. </p> <p>22:26:33 Timo Daehlie: i got warned for encroaching 
  </p> <p>22:26:48 Timo Daehlie: but if you find creative solutions it encourage people 
  as well </p> <p>22:27:17 Klaatu Congrejo: Swaying trees, where they sway onto adfarmers 
  land, are also regarded as 'encroachment' by LL. So beware! </p> <p>22:27:</p> <p>22 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: I also think it's very easy to say there is *no* good reason a 4m^2 plot 
  should require banlines. </p> <p>22:27:29 Jeffrey Gomez: I mean, seriously now. </p> <p>22:27:43 
  Talarus Luan: Most of the adcutters have gotten smart. They don't usualyl violate 
  the ToS overtly anymore </p> <p>22:28:03 Talarus Luan: Yes, banlines, according to the 
  Lindens, can be dealt with under the rules. </p> <p>22:28:06 Timo Daehlie: they even 
  use smart tactics while cutting land </p> <p>22:28:10 Timo Daehlie: i showed Klaatu 
  today </p> <p>22:28:</p> <p>21 Timo Daehlie: same as i did to you yesterday Talarus </p> <p>22:28:23 
  Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, they're getting very devious. </p> <p>22:28:31 Jeffrey Gomez: 
  Talarus: I mean the server should outright disallow it. </p> <p>22:28:39 Jeffrey Gomez: 
  Instead of forcing Lindens to intervene. </p> <p>22:28:40 Rem Nightfire: yes they are 
  getting wise to us putting up blocks in succesion instead of all at once </p> <p>22:28:45 
  Timo Daehlie: when those cutters who are in the game for years are starting 
  using tactics i fear the worst for newbies </p> <p>22:28:51 Esther Merryman: i think 
  we need to get more organised </p> <p>22:28:56 Jeffrey Gomez: It's one of those "blatant 
  enough to be codified" issues. </p> <p>22:29:02 Esther Merryman: not only abuse reporting 
  </p> <p>22:29:04 Talarus Luan: Well, JIRA that and wait for it to never get implemented. 
  In the meantime, we'll beat them with our propaganda. :) </p> <p>22:29:16 Esther Merryman: 
  but start a petition of avatars </p> <p>22:29:19 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, thats why we 
  need helpers at Orientation stage for newbies too. Help them get through the 
  maze. </p> <p>22:29:23 Jeffrey Gomez: Meh, JIRA. </p> <p>22:29:25 Talarus Luan: yes. </p> <p>22:29:27 
  Jeffrey Gomez: I'd rather bug a real Linden \o/ </p> <p>22:29:43 Talarus Luan: We DEFINITELY 
  need real good newbie orientation materials. </p> <p>22:29:56 Esther Merryman: but to 
  do so we need a cast iron proposal that people will sign for </p> <p>22:30:17 Klaatu 
  Congrejo: Yeah, JIRA is just LL's method for putting probs in a holding pattern. 
  I agree with Jeffrey, better to bug a Linden. </p> <p>22:30:27 Jeffrey Gomez: Has anyone 
  considered sneaking a bit of FAQ materials into default and alternate Orientation 
  Islands? </p> <p>22:30:30 Talarus Luan: I can write some, modifying the propaganda a 
  bit into more informative suggestions for new residents </p> <p>22:30:45 Klaatu Congrejo: 
  Hey, thats a good idea. </p> <p>22:30:51 Talarus Luan: Some of us here are in the SL 
  Mentors group </p> <p>22:31:13 Jeffrey Gomez: That's not *exactly* how I mean. :) </p> <p>22:31:14 
  Rem Nightfire: one thing - at orientation island buying land is the last thing 
  on peoples minds they are trying to walk maybe just something like "when you 
  are ready to buy land talk to us </p> <p>22:31:20 Talarus Luan: and, if possible, it 
  would be great to get our newbie materials into their hands to diseminate </p> <p>22:31:33 
  Jeffrey Gomez: I dunno. Buying land is enough of a hook that it's on the Linden 
  front page. </p> <p>22:31:36 Kyrion Yalin: i talked about that with Tal last week, i 
  m an SL Mentor </p> <p>22:31:41 Talarus Luan: Very true, Rem, but they should at least 
  be given the information to read at some point. </p> <p>22:31:44 Esther Merryman: we 
  need to get out to land owners in the sims </p> <p>22:31:48 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>22:32:01 
  Esther Merryman: they are not interested </p> <p>22:32:03 Esther Merryman: not mess 
  with newbies </p> <p>22:32:04 Talarus Luan: Kinda like the "How to buy a house" kit 
  I got just before I bought my first house in RL. </p> <p>22:32:17 Rem Nightfire: yes 
  i wish i had had that! </p> <p>22:32:23 Hekate Galatea: amen. </p> <p>22:32:36 Jeffrey Gomez: 
  HowTo: Spot Extortion, report it, and zap the person responsible </p> <p>22:32:40 Rem 
  Nightfire: bought right next to an ad tower coiurse thats what got me into this 
  in the first place </p> <p>22:32:58 Talarus Luan: I was lucky, I worked for Coca Cola 
  at the time, and they had a local organization who educates first time buyers 
  come in and hold a seminar. :) </p> <p>22:33:05 Jeffrey Gomez: I would kill to have 
  an SA Goon mob on standby for the extortionists. </p> <p>22:33:13 Rem Nightfire: haha 
  </p> <p>22:33:16 Jeffrey Gomez: That would be highly entertaining. </p> <p>22:33:26 Hekate Galatea: 
  break some kneecaps </p> <p>22:33:39 Klaatu Congrejo: There are plenty of 'guns for 
  hire' in SL Jeffrey. </p> <p>22:33:41 Jeffrey Gomez: And when they're done posting the 
  real world images of the extortionists to 4chan... </p> <p>22:33:59 Jeffrey Gomez: Klaatu: 
  I know. I'm mostly kidding. </p> <p>22:34:07 Jeffrey Gomez: Public shaming is *extremely* 
  effective, however. </p> <p>22:34:18 Talarus Luan: OK. So, let's put on our best game 
  in the next week or so, pull together everything we have, fill in the stuff 
  we are missing, and let's get rolling! </p> <p>22:34:23 Klaatu Congrejo: Yeah, but the 
  thought HAD corssed my mind too, ha ha </p> <p>22:34:45 Timo Daehlie: action ! </p> <p>22:34:54 
  Klaatu Congrejo: OK talarus. </p> <p>22:35:07 Talarus Luan: The next item on the agenda 
  is the Team memberships and leader roles. Seriously, if you want to help organize 
  this controlled chaos, please don't be shy! </p> <p>22:35:14 Rem Nightfire: in the mean 
  time how can we try to distribute our efforts around sl in the most efficient 
  way? </p> <p>22:35:20 Klaatu Congrejo: I really gotta go now folks. Got some RL stuff 
  to do to pay for my SL efforts! </p> <p>22:35:35 Rem Nightfire: take care kc </p> <p>22:35:44 
  Jeffrey Gomez: o/ </p> <p>22:35:46 Talarus Luan: Well, doing the same things with what 
  you have on hand, Rem. </p> <p>22:35:49 Esther Merryman: bye klaatu </p> <p>22:36:04 Timo Daehlie: 
  klaatu good day ! </p> <p>22:36:37 Rem Nightfire: yes but i dont want to end up doing 
  it in the same sim or even one right next to one of yours i want to spread it 
  out as much as possible </p> <p>22:37:11 Talarus Luan: Aye, I understand. The only way 
  to avoid that is coordination, and that will take as much time as necessary 
  until we have the organization to support it. </p> <p>22:37:18 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>22:37:24 
  Esther Merryman: i have targeted 34 sims </p> <p>22:37:27 Esther Merryman: now </p> <p>22:37:38 
  Esther Merryman: with my new signs </p> <p>22:37:39 Rem Nightfire: we'll just have to 
  keep out euyes open for now </p> <p>22:37:49 Talarus Luan: Best suggesting is to keep 
  track of it yourself, and we will try to mesh it in with the overall plan as 
  it comes together. </p> <p>22:37:54 Talarus Luan: *suggestion </p> <p>22:37:58 Rem Nightfire: 
  yes </p> <p>22:38:00 Esther Merryman: and spoken to local land owners </p> <p>22:38:10 Talarus 
  Luan: Keep records. :) </p> <p>22:38:11 Esther Merryman: they are all supportive </p> <p>22:38:29 
  Esther Merryman: of the work you are doing </p> <p>22:38:32 Talarus Luan: Get their 
  names and when you talked to them, and if they are interested in getting involved, 
  where they are, etc </p> <p>22:38:36 Rem Nightfire: is there someone we can send the 
  list of sims where we are - to you talarus? </p> <p>22:38:49 Jeffrey Gomez: The most 
  systematic approach is actually to get it posted to the Linden blog with actionable 
  content. </p> <p>22:38:53 Rem Nightfire: thats alot of work though kc is in 100 regions 
  </p> <p>22:38:55 Talarus Luan: Anything you send to me, I will make sure it gets taken 
  care of. :) </p> <p>22:39:02 Jeffrey Gomez: (But that would take effort) </p> <p>22:39:18 Esther 
  Merryman: but now need a way to help other than juust putting up signs </p> <p>22:39:26 
  Talarus Luan: I don't have any allusions to the Lindens helping with this, Jeffrey. 
  </p> <p>22:39:34 Rem Nightfire: lots of tps </p> <p>22:39:41 Talarus Luan: Not until we show 
  them we are serious, and by then, we will already be well underway. </p> <p>22:39:44 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Oh, they're interested. </p> <p>22:39:51 Jeffrey Gomez: They're just 
  interested in a quick fix. </p> <p>22:39:58 Jeffrey Gomez: Instead of a drawn out issue. 
  </p> <p>22:40:03 Talarus Luan: Well, they are"interested", but "interest" is not help. 
  </p> <p>22:40:15 Esther Merryman: if we can get names of avatars supporting a proposal 
  </p> <p>22:40:</p> 
<p>21 Talarus Luan: We are at Jack's office hours every week for the last month 
  or two. </p> <p>22:40:23 Esther Merryman: then they are help </p> <p>22:40:24 Esther Merryman: 
  then they are help </p> <p>22:40:26 Jeffrey Gomez: It is when interest can be very easily 
  turned into action, or action handed to them on a silver platter. </p> <p>22:40:37 Esther 
  Merryman: this could be done by taking calling cards </p> <p>22:40:40 Talarus Luan: 
  We have submitted proposals. </p> <p>22:40:48 Esther Merryman: something like that </p> <p>22:40:51 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Insufficient. </p> <p>22:40:53 Talarus Luan: Good idea, Esther. :) </p> <p>22:41:01 
  Jeffrey Gomez: I'm talking hardcore lobbying tactics. </p> <p>22:41:03 Esther Merryman: 
  not everyone is willling to give up their sl time </p> <p>22:41:18 Talarus Luan: We 
  are, Jeffrey, and you are welcome to join in the effort. :) </p> <p>22:41:20 Esther 
  Merryman: but they are willing to put there name to support </p> <p>22:41:46 Talarus 
  Luan: I would also like to make up a poll about land extortion and especially, 
  advertising. </p> <p>22:42:00 Esther Merryman: yes but the proposal is not quite what 
  many would agree with </p> <p>22:42:02 Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>22:42:20 Talarus Luan: I want 
  to show LL that people do NOT like advertising, and that courting groups like 
  TAG will NOT help their image. </p> <p>22:42:34 Esther Merryman: we have to reach the 
  masses with a proposal they are all behind </p> <p>22:42:39 Rem Nightfire: a poll would 
  be very powerful </p> <p>22:42:51 Jeffrey Gomez: The easiest way to do that is still 
  to poke a Linden with damning information. </p> <p>22:42:58 Talarus Luan: Esther, give 
  us that proposal, and we will run with it. </p> <p>22:43:14 Talarus Luan: Everyone here 
  is just as capable or writing proposals as anyone. </p> <p>22:43:30 Talarus Luan: I 
  write up the ones I am given as ideas, or ones I have as ideas. </p> <p>22:43:32 Esther 
  Merryman: and something people would take part in as it doesnt take up to much 
  of their time </p> <p>22:43:43 Esther Merryman: I will set to work on it </p> <p>22:43:45 Talarus 
  Luan: They are not meant to be the "only ones" we are offering. </p> <p>22:44:07 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: 1) I have an ad farm in my sim. [Yes / No] </p> <p>22:44:10 Talarus Luan: Well, 
  to anyone that says "I don't have the time" I ask: "Who does?" </p> <p>22:44:17 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: 2) I like the ad farm in my sim. [Yes / No] </p> <p>22:44:21 Talarus Luan: People 
  have to care enough to make time. </p> <p>22:44:29 Esther Merryman: every one could 
  put forward ideas </p> <p>22:44:32 Jeffrey Gomez: 3) I would like to do unspeakable 
  things to the owner of the ad farm in my sim. [Yes/ No] </p> <p>22:44:37 Esther Merryman: 
  and we all debate to get the average of our ideas </p> <p>22:44:38 Rem Nightfire: haha 
  </p> <p>22:44:41 Jeffrey Gomez: Describe said unspeakable things: ___________ </p> <p>22:44:43 
  Talarus Luan: Even if it is an hour or two here and there on /something/ every 
  week. </p> <p>22:45:11 Esther Merryman: the main point is to stamp out advertising on 
  the small plots in a way LL would agree to </p> <p>22:45:13 Talarus Luan: No one here 
  can carry this effort on their shoulders alone. </p> <p>22:45:23 Rem Nightfire: how 
  could we get a simple poll like that out to everyone? </p> <p>22:45:31 Esther Merryman: 
  and people would feel their rights not affected aswell </p> <p>22:45:48 Talarus Luan: 
  Hand it out as a notecard, or an object that they can use, linked to a backend 
  website </p> <p>22:46:04 Jeffrey Gomez: It's also worth noting that the easiest way 
  to get the Lindens to notice the problem is to force them upon it, either by 
  dialog, or by flooding them with abuse reports. </p> <p>22:46:19 Talarus Luan: Well, 
  Esther, as I said, show me that proposal, and I will be glad to consider it 
  and get behind it. :) </p> <p>22:46:27 Timo Daehlie: the lindens are reading the blogs 
  as well </p> <p>22:46:29 Esther Merryman: notecards to be added to our signs </p> <p>22:46:34 
  Rem Nightfire: yes </p> <p>22:46:35 Jeffrey Gomez: "Have you ARed an ad farmer today?" 
  </p> <p>22:46:41 Esther Merryman: if arbour is on hand that already gives us great coverage 
  </p> <p>22:46:43 Esther Merryman: if arbour is on hand that already gives us great coverage 
  </p> <p>22:46:49 Esther Merryman: yes a few </p> <p>22:47:04 Timo Daehlie: we got full coorporation 
  from Arbor Esther </p> <p>22:47:05 Esther Merryman: one group 20000 </p> <p>22:47:11 Timo Daehlie: 
  the owners promised </p> <p>22:47:29 Esther Merryman: they called that because they 
  put the price 20000 on 16sqm plots </p> <p>22:47:31 Timo Daehlie: but still 1000's of 
  residents to go </p> <p>22:47:49 Esther Merryman: websites </p> <p>22:47:51 Esther Merryman: 
  websites </p> <p>22:47:52 Rem Nightfire: through NCI? </p> <p>22:48:07 Talarus Luan: NCI and 
  the Shelter also need to be contacted. </p> <p>22:48:</p>
<p>21 Talarus Luan: I can probably 
  go and talk with Carl Metropolitan and Travis Lambert </p> <p>22:48:29 Rem Nightfire: 
  great </p> <p>22:48:39 Talarus Luan: UNless someone is already acquainted with them 
  </p> <p>22:48:41 Esther Merryman: ask the sl newspapers to cover our proposal and give 
  names to send calling cards to </p> <p>22:48:50 Timo Daehlie: maybe your2ndplace.com 
  will give some extra attention as well </p> <p>22:48:52 Jeffrey Gomez: I'm sure YadNi 
  would love to distribute it. </p> <p>22:48:53 Talarus Luan: Yep, we need someone to 
  do that. :) </p> <p>22:48:55 Esther Merryman: that should help </p> <p>22:48:56 Esther Merryman: 
  that should help </p> <p>22:49:05 Esther Merryman: even building sites </p> <p>22:49:06 Talarus 
  Luan: Does YadNi log in anymore? </p> <p>22:49:09 Esther Merryman: sandboxes </p> <p>22:49:11 
  Jeffrey Gomez: Yes. </p> <p>22:49:15 Jeffrey Gomez: As in, this morning. </p> <p>22:49:32 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: We talk. He and I go way back. </p> <p>22:49:33 Esther Merryman: lots of people 
  who learn to build script will end up buying land </p> <p>22:49:43 Talarus Luan: Yep 
  </p> <p>22:50:01 Talarus Luan: Though we can't advertise in most sandboxes, as it is 
  generally against the rules </p> <p>22:50:07 Esther Merryman: so should be sypathetic 
  </p> <p>22:50:33 Esther Merryman: there are lots of options </p> <p>22:50:35 Esther Merryman: 
  there are lots of options </p> <p>22:50:42 Esther Merryman: we could ask the owners 
  </p> <p>22:50:50 Esther Merryman: directly </p> <p>22:50:50 Esther Merryman: directly </p> <p>22:51:03 
  Talarus Luan: Well, suggestions as to who are great, but we need people to take 
  the ball and actually go and contact them. :) </p> <p>22:51:18 Esther Merryman: i will 
  do as much as i can </p> <p>22:51:47 Jeffrey Gomez: YadNi's is a decent enough effort 
  in my book. </p> <p>22:51:55 Esther Merryman: already spoke to people in the sims i 
  have signs </p> <p>22:51:56 Talarus Luan: Well, please volunteer for specific ones, 
  so we don't have multiple people bombarding them from us. :) </p> <p>22:51:59 Jeffrey 
  Gomez: Just give me an image file that's damning enough. :) </p> <p>22:52:05 Esther 
  Merryman: and have made them friends </p> <p>22:52:15 Talarus Luan: I will talk to Carl 
  Metropolitan and Travis Lambert </p> <p>22:52:34 Jeffrey Gomez: And if *anyone* can 
  find a way to market this to a more global (non-SL) audience, I'd like to hear 
  it. </p> <p>22:52:42 Esther Merryman: so can contact for polls etc </p> <p>22:52:44 Esther Merryman: 
  so can contact for polls etc </p> <p>22:52:49 Jeffrey Gomez: Because I can find a way 
  to get it near if not Slashdotted. </p> <p>22:52:51 Rem Nightfire: i need to go soon 
  folks, im going to start some more checkerboarding this week and i will help 
  with anything else that needs attention this week. jsut let me know </p> <p>22:52:58 
  Esther Merryman: and petition </p> <p>22:52:58 Esther Merryman: and petition </p> <p>22:52:59 
  Talarus Luan: Okies. Rem </p> <p>22:53:13 Timo Daehlie: keep in contact Rem ;) </p> <p>22:53:24 
  Rem Nightfire: go get em everyone! </p> <p>22:53:25 Jeffrey Gomez: Bombarding BoingBoing 
  about it is also wise. They never take my suggestions though. :( </p> <p>22:53:39 Esther 
  Merryman: take care rem and thanks with the help on the signs </p> <p>22:53:41 Esther 
  Merryman: take care rem and thanks with the help on the signs </p> <p>22:53:43 Rem Nightfire: 
  ok timo bye all </p> <p>22:53:50 Talarus Luan: Alright any other meeting business before 
  we close the meeting? </p> <p>22:54:27 Talarus Luan: Questions? Comments? Complaints? 
  Please direct all flames and complaints to our complaints department, which 
  is me. :D </p> <p>22:54:35 Jeffrey Gomez: We require the virgin sacrifice. </p> <p>22:54:42 
  Timo Daehlie: well i ll work on collecting prefab stuff and anti adfarms signs 
  which can be picked up over here </p> <p>22:54:45 Hekate Galatea: "please direct your 
  complaints to the man-eating dragon" </p> <p>22:54:47 Jeffrey Gomez: /me waits for the 
  punchline </p> <p>22:55:12 Jeffrey Gomez: Also. Isn't shiny flame-retardant? </p> <p>22:55:38 
  Talarus Luan: I dunno, I am just retardant in general... </p> <p>22:55:50 Jeffrey Gomez: 
  *bah-dum-tssh* </p> <p>22:56:09 [Puppeteer Cage Scriptless]: Click me to toggle the 
  animation on/off </p> <p>22:56:13 Esther Merryman: thats the textures and signs i am 
  now using timo </p> <p>22:56:28 Timo Daehlie: k thanks ;) </p> <p>22:56:49 Timo Daehlie: try 
  out ;)) feel like an adfarmer </p> <p>22:56:51 Talarus Luan: ..and yes, whatever you 
  send to me, I will sort and organize and pass around. :) </p> <p>22:57:27 Talarus Luan: 
  I am afraid of the "18+" part :P </p> <p>22:57:37 Esther Merryman: one thing that i 
  have noticed </p> <p>22:57:38 Esther Merryman: one thing that i have noticed </p> <p>22:58:15 
  Esther Merryman: while checking the sims i am in is others are starting to put 
  out signs by themselves </p> <p>22:58:31 Timo Daehlie: yes many people do </p> <p>22:58:33 Esther 
  Merryman: which shows the level of feeling on adfarming </p> <p>22:58:44 Timo Daehlie: 
  some individuals but also members of arbor </p> <p>22:59:01 Timo Daehlie: its getting 
  worse again </p> <p>22:59:10 Talarus Luan: yup </p> 
<p>22:59:39 Talarus Luan: Alright.. any last comments for the log? </p>
<p>23:00:05 Talarus Luan: I think we've exhausted our 2 hours for this week. ;) 
</p>
<p>23:00:10 Jeffrey Gomez: Any comments for the ad farmers that will inevitably 
  read the logs? </p>
<p>23:00:23 Jeffrey Gomez: Other than "eat shit and die?" </p>
<p>23:00:27 Timo Daehlie: waste of time ;) </p>
<p>23:00:28 Hekate Galatea: be nice. </p>
<p>23:00:34 Jeffrey Gomez: Fair enough. :) </p>
<p>23:00:35 Esther Merryman: thats my new list timo </p>
<p>23:00:37 Esther Merryman: thats my new list timo </p>
<p>23:00:38 Jeffrey Gomez: It is PG ^ </p>
<p>23:00:39 Talarus Luan: die Die DIE *DIE* DIEDIEDIEDIEDIEDIE!!!!!11!1!!!!!oneoneone!1eleventy-one! 
</p>
<p>23:00:59 Timo Daehlie: cool esther ;))) </p>
<p>23:01:06 Timo Daehlie: i ve some stuff for you to put in as well </p>
<p>23:01:15 Jeffrey Gomez: Talarus: llStabThroughInternet(key id); </p>
<p>23:01:40 Talarus Luan: OK. Thanks all for coming.. I look forward to seeing 
  us getting out there and making it happen! :D </p>
<p>23:01:44 Esther Merryman: thanks timo</p>
<p> ===== Close Log 2008-06-01T23:01:45.245762Z ===== </p>