21:12:26 Klaatu Congrejo: Hekate, and land thats very cheap is good. If its more then L$60 for 16m don't bother. If its cheaper than that, its cuts into the bottom line of the advertisers.
21:12:34 Talarus Luan: Alright.. welcome again, friends. :)
21:12:36 Klaatu Congrejo: So, buying more expensive land helps their profits.
21:12:51 Drongle McMahon: 'fraid I paid 85 :-(
21:12:56 Rem Nightfire: many plots at 50 L now
21:13:03 Hekate Galatea: Ok, - so if I go on a shopping spree buying only the cheap stuff, I'd wreak havok?
21:13:12 Hekate Galatea: I saw one for 48 yesterday.
21:13:15 Klaatu Congrejo: Oops, Drongle. I hope it was a strategically important block.
21:13:22 Rem Nightfire: thats the theory at least
21:13:40 Drongle McMahon: I'm not sure .... by buying it even cheap, we are letting them off paying tier.
21:13:45 Talarus Luan: In general, I don't recommend buying anything owned by verifiable adfarmers, unless it is of value to you.
21:13:52 Drongle McMahon: Releasing it for more farms.
21:14:03 Klaatu Congrejo: Also, buying the cheapest encourages them to keep their prices down.
21:14:21 Timo Daehlie: i only buy them when they are top of the list so they cant replace it with cheaper ones
21:14:24 Talarus Luan: They aren't losing money on the deal
21:14:25 Drongle McMahon: I think Tal is right ... except that we need some to plant the propaganda.
21:14:28 Rem Nightfire: we havebeen goinginto big cutup areas andbuyingthe periphery,putting up the buy lines andwatchingthe restsit there unsold for days
21:14:38 Talarus Luan: yeah
21:14:47 Hekate Galatea: Is it a case of the ends justifying the means? I had always figured that buying cheap and building neat sort of discouraged others from buying the spendy stuff.
21:14:52 Rem Nightfire: my space bar needs some grease
21:14:54 Esther Merryman: yes
21:14:55 Talarus Luan: Well, as has been said, strategic value
21:14:57 Hekate Galatea: sometimes I give it away to neighbors.
21:15:01 Talarus Luan: or personal value
21:15:09 Esther Merryman: i only buy one plot of cheap 16sqm normally
21:15:18 Talarus Luan: Yeah, I collect, recombine, and offer for sale to neighbors, generlaly
21:15:33 Hekate Galatea: I was doing that before, but got discouraged.
21:15:51 Esther Merryman: but recently i noticed alot of land 16 sqm parcels up for sale in lots of sims for 55l
21:15:55 Rem Nightfire: yes that is what i am doing too. sometimes that meansbuyingacheap adjoining larger parcel
21:16:05 Klaatu Congrejo: If you can afford it, you can buy cheap, set up some anti-ad propaganda, then abandon the land. That also helps to keep yr tier under control. It gives the land to LL and keeps it out of adfarmers hands.
21:16:13 Esther Merryman: i thought it was one of them pulling out
21:16:22 Talarus Luan: Yep
21:16:32 Rem Nightfire: julie litvak has been cutting like crazy
21:16:34 Esther Merryman: but after investigation
21:16:49 Esther Merryman: it was a fresh cut
21:16:54 Esther Merryman: yes that the one doing it
21:16:56 Drongle McMahon: But still it releives the adfarmer of tier. Best would be one propaganda plot per farm, and keep them paying the ntier on the rest.
21:17:01 Esther Merryman: jl land
21:17:05 Rem Nightfire: hey maisko! welcome!
21:17:20 Esther Merryman: noew something i tried
21:17:22 Rem Nightfire: masiko
21:17:25 Klaatu Congrejo: Like Rem said, in those areas where there's fields of L$55 blocks, we've been buying the outside edges and setting up buylines. The inner blocks are STILL unsold now. Tree days later.
21:17:35 Esther Merryman: was to put textures on the land parcel picture
21:17:47 Talarus Luan: buylines?
21:17:48 Esther Merryman: and put plots up for sale
21:17:56 Masiko Preis: Hello?
21:17:57 Klaatu Congrejo: Buy Pass lines Talarus
21:18:01 Masiko Preis: Is there a meeting here?
21:18:02 Talarus Luan: Ohh
21:18:09 Drongle McMahon: I saw the first cut land on the new continent today, I think.
21:18:16 Hekate Galatea: how sad.
21:18:20 Esther Merryman: this places the parcel name description and picture in the search list
21:18:22 Klaatu Congrejo: I charge the adfarmers L$10 to get onto their land, ha ha
21:18:45 Talarus Luan: Hehe. Well, as long as you don't annoy the neighbors with it. ;)
21:18:47 Rem Nightfire: yes have seat everyone this is masiko a neighbor and firiend to the cuase
21:18:50 Klaatu Congrejo: They can just TP onto their land if they wish, .... if they didn't have bloody big adtowers there.
21:19:04 Esther Merryman: yes but that also annoys the other avatars not adfarmers as it is a adfarmer trick to harass
21:19:07 Masiko Preis: Okay.. hello
21:19:09 Fos Dagger: I've put up scanners to detect if the farmers ever show up bt plots near my land; have not gotten a hit yet.
21:19:13 Talarus Luan: Greetings, Masiko
21:19:14 Drongle McMahon: How high do the buy pass lines go?
21:19:15 Masiko Preis: Hi Talarus
21:19:18 Klaatu Congrejo: NO, like I said earlier, we only do that in areas of adfarm land.
21:19:23 Esther Merryman: we have to be carefull how we act
21:19:24 Rem Nightfire: 50 m
21:19:26 Kyrion Yalin: hi
21:19:35 Kyrion Yalin: sorry for beeing late
21:19:45 Timo Daehlie: football kyrion ?
21:19:46 Esther Merryman: hi kyrion
21:19:57 Klaatu Congrejo: I think they buy lines are as high as ban lines Drngle. About 100m
21:20:07 Talarus Luan: OK. Well, let's get to some more News from the Front. :)
21:20:09 Rem Nightfire: i think ts 50 kc
21:20:24 Klaatu Congrejo: OK
21:20:36 Timo Daehlie: ready ;)
21:20:37 Esther Merryman: yes they are 100m
21:20:58 Rem Nightfire: ok i guess i ammistaken then, sorry
21:21:03 Hekate Galatea: so, what's on the agenda today?
21:21:07 Talarus Luan: Last weeks' Jack Linden meeting was pretty much more of the same. However, more people are showing up unrelated to us and complaining about adfarms. We have been giving out the info.
21:21:14 Klaatu Congrejo: Maybe 50m above ground level in some areas. I think its actually 100m above sealevel.
21:21:28 Esther Merryman: sounds right
21:21:47 Esther Merryman: but i think it is annoying to do that
21:21:54 Talarus Luan: Spreading the good word. We're definitely seeing more and more people who are fed up with the situation, and poor Jack gets inundated with it
21:22:02 Esther Merryman: as other innocents would be affected
21:22:08 Klaatu Congrejo: Poor Jack!! (sob)
21:22:30 Hekate Galatea: Question: why aren't more people showing up to the meeting here? are we giving out notices for this as well as information?
21:22:34 Esther Merryman: well he should take action then
21:22:42 Masiko Preis: I think if you want newer people to come
21:22:45 Talarus Luan: LL still is supposedly discussing the problem internally, but it still looks like any solution will be a while in the future still
21:22:51 Esther Merryman: people are against adfarming
21:22:56 Rem Nightfire: yes masiko?
21:22:58 Masiko Preis: It would help to put a second announcement on the list right when it starts
21:23:10 Rem Nightfire: ok
21:23:15 Esther Merryman: but still not enought to spend their free time campaigning on it
21:23:18 Talarus Luan: Well, LL wants the "Easy button" to be pressed
21:23:21 Timo Daehlie: makes notes
21:23:27 Rem Nightfire: adzoo does that i will startdoingit too
21:23:31 Masiko Preis: Newbies are often not able to locate notices and I have been playing for nearly 3 months and still had trouble finding it
21:23:42 Hekate Galatea: note reads: created script for Easy Button
21:23:56 Talarus Luan: yeah..
21:24:08 Drongle McMahon: /Easy button? What's that?
21:24:13 Talarus Luan: Just stick a Landmine in an Easy Button prim :P
21:24:22 Rem Nightfire: ok you might consider joiningthe adzoo too masiko and there are other groups representedhereas well
21:24:36 Hekate Galatea: easy button is an ad campaign for an office supply company here.
21:24:44 Masiko Preis: Okay
21:24:45 Hekate Galatea: push the easy button and you get what you want.
21:24:56 Talarus Luan: Easy button is what people ask for when they don't want to do the hard work necessary to accomplish something worthwhile.
21:25:05 Drongle McMahon: Ah
21:25:13 Talarus Luan: They just press, and the problem is solved, or the work is done for them
21:25:34 Hekate Galatea: I'm still waiting for mine to be delivered. the mail is slow I guess.
21:25:42 Talarus Luan: An Office Supply chain in the US (Staples) uses it as a marketing schtick.
21:25:51 Klaatu Congrejo: Is it a sort of Finder' group? Anything you want they find it for you? For a fee?
21:26:03 Masiko Preis: Ad Zoo does nt have open enrollment
21:26:22 Rem Nightfire: talkto timo here
21:26:33 Esther Merryman: It should do if we are wishing to gain numbers
21:26:39 Talarus Luan: Anyway, While we continue to maintain pressure on them (and will be stepping it up next week, when we start camping Robin Linden's OH, too), there's still nothing significant to report on the issue.
21:26:59 Hekate Galatea: maybe there should be a new, separate group for this.
21:27:00 Talarus Luan: From LL's perspective
21:27:20 Talarus Luan: Can't have another group. :P
21:27:22 Esther Merryman: yes that would be good to create a supporters group
21:27:28 Hekate Galatea: One that will consolidate the active members from all the different groups.
21:27:35 Esther Merryman: it would work as the petittion idea
21:27:47 Esther Merryman: show the list of group members
21:27:49 Talarus Luan: Would have to leave the Ad Zoo group to join another
21:27:51 Fos Dagger: Some of us are already maxed on Groups, some sort of Subscribe-O-Matic system might be prefereable, or offered as well.
21:27:55 Timo Daehlie: i can make it open but then we got the problem that people think that we coorporate with ad cutters if they join our group
21:28:20 Klaatu Congrejo: Hang on. I don't support the idea of THIS group splintering. We're already a 'coalition' of existing groups anyway.
21:28:24 Hekate Galatea: If we police the group, keep track of members, those people can be ejected, can't they?
21:28:31 Talarus Luan: Well, people already suggest we have adcutter alts in the group anyway
21:28:34 Esther Merryman: to give the number of anti ad supporters
21:28:44 Talarus Luan: Yeah, but there isn't a blacklist, they can just re-join
21:29:17 Esther Merryman: i would think it highly likely they will be watching everything we do
21:29:30 Hekate Galatea: I had assumed that the Ad Zoo was just a handy location, not necessarily a group that consolidates everyone.
21:29:35 Talarus Luan: Well, according to Prince Rosenbaum, they are
21:29:38 Rem Nightfire: let them watch we want themto watch
21:29:56 Hekate Galatea: Does that part matter so much? that they know? it's not like we're doing anything really covert.
21:30:00 Esther Merryman: we do not want to give them ideas though
21:30:01 Fos Dagger: Security via Obscuraty is, most likley, never going to work anyway.
21:30:04 Talarus Luan: Nope.
21:30:16 Talarus Luan: In fact, I *want* them to know
21:30:19 Hekate Galatea: it's the idea of association that you want to prevent.
21:30:22 Fos Dagger: Ever if I can't spell it...
21:30:24 Talarus Luan: I want them to feel the heat
21:30:27 Klaatu Congrejo: Right Fos.
21:30:50 Hekate Galatea: So...how to get people to ask to join, when we don't want the bad guys joining.
21:30:53 Klaatu Congrejo: I'm sure I got adfarmers in my own Groups. So what, we got nothing to hide have we?
21:30:56 Masiko Preis: Political action is generally a fairly public enterprise.
21:31:13 Talarus Luan: I think Kalyrra Heart is feeling it.. she keeps packing up her ad obelisks in all the sims I have seen where she used to be
21:31:17 Esther Merryman: you need to make a supporters group
21:31:37 Hekate Galatea: I think that would be a good idea.
21:31:38 Esther Merryman: thats the answer
21:31:49 Fos Dagger: I'd say add something ot the Group Covenent saying 'AdFarmers are welcome to join, we have nothing to hide. But their presence should not be interpreted to mean we condone their actions...'
21:31:56 Masiko Preis: Sorry to be a pest, but how do you define ad farmers? Other than what was in the pamphlet.
21:31:59 Fos Dagger: Or sommat.
21:32:00 Hekate Galatea: that way one notice can be sent out and EVERYONE will know about meetings, etc.
21:32:09 Esther Merryman: then it doesnt matter if they join they just add to the numbers campaigning against them
21:32:22 Talarus Luan: Well, we use "adfarming" as kind of an umbrella term to refer to the act of land extortion
21:32:28 Masiko Preis: Okay...
21:32:37 Talarus Luan: Land extortionists don't all use ads.
21:32:39 Rem Nightfire: andbig ugly towers
21:32:42 Talarus Luan: Some use banlines
21:32:47 Hekate Galatea: I'd like to see more people actually show up at the meeting though, and it's hard to get he word out when there are so many different groups
21:32:52 Klaatu Congrejo: Good idea Fos. However, this meeting is not a Group. We are all members of groups that are concerned by the adfarmer problems. We are a 'coalition'.
21:32:57 Esther Merryman: land extorsion exists in big parcels as well as small
21:32:59 Talarus Luan: Some use nothing more than strategic placement of microplots
21:33:01 Masiko Preis: Right well the thing is....
21:33:12 Timo Daehlie: its better to think of a campaign
21:33:17 Masiko Preis: The land extorion makes it nearly impossible for new players to do anything but rent
21:33:22 Talarus Luan: Well, large parcels are handled by the market
21:33:39 Masiko Preis: Until we get good enough to search very well
21:33:54 Masiko Preis: At which point the only affordable parcels are from people who support your movement.
21:33:59 Masiko Preis: I say that to let you know
21:34:01 Esther Merryman: no land barons hike prices
21:34:03 Talarus Luan: Small parcels are a natural psychological temptation, and are where the problem occurs
21:34:12 Esther Merryman: and price out the little people to
21:34:18 Esther Merryman: not so much now
21:34:20 Masiko Preis: You do have specific group that is casually supportive.
21:34:29 Talarus Luan: I don't care if my neighbor has his 512sqm set at L$10000000. That's his perogative.
21:34:32 Esther Merryman: but about 6 months ago
21:34:39 Esther Merryman: they were a real problem
21:34:41 Fos Dagger: I'd be happy to script a system that communicated with a central server placed somewhere and displayed the next meeting time as float text and did a MapTo on touch, that anybody could place anywhere (on their own land...) if that would be helpful.
21:34:53 Talarus Luan: However, a 16sqm plot set at that price is a psychological slap in the face
21:35:06 Masiko Preis: When people are paying 7000L for a 16ml parcel with banlines thats a rip off
21:35:09 Talarus Luan: Esp if it is a hole in your land
21:35:17 Klaatu Congrejo: That sounds great Fos. I'd be interested in that. I could put that all over the grid.
21:35:25 Hekate Galatea: yes, it sounds good.
21:35:29 Esther Merryman: i am here because of the holes in my land
21:35:44 Masiko Preis: I am here because I even HAVE land.
21:35:49 Esther Merryman: i know it is a major problem
21:36:06 Fos Dagger: IM me later Kleetu and we can sort details.
21:36:16 Klaatu Congrejo: OK, thanks.
21:36:18 Masiko Preis: Most of the plots that aren't 16ml rip off parcels ARE being sold by your movement's supporters
21:37:01 Hekate Galatea: are the fountains and caution signs on "sale" on sl exchange or onrez?
21:37:18 Hekate Galatea: any of the items that we'd like people to have on their land to show their support?
21:37:29 Klaatu Congrejo: Not that I'm aware of Hekate. They are all free to copy anyway, why would you buy at slexchange?
21:37:33 Rem Nightfire: no they are copyhekate
21:37:40 Talarus Luan: OK. Here's the deal, though... a high-priced parcel by itself is not necessarily land extortion.
21:37:44 Fos Dagger: Easier to search.
21:37:45 Esther Merryman: you can list them for free
21:37:50 Esther Merryman: 0l$
21:37:52 Klaatu Congrejo: The scripts in the fountains are no/copu/no/modify also.
21:37:54 Hekate Galatea: because some people are more likely to see them on one of those sites.
21:37:57 Esther Merryman: on slexchange
21:37:58 Talarus Luan: A high price plus some form of enticement or coercion is.
21:38:00 Fos Dagger: I'd be happy to list any Anti-AdFarm stuff on SLX.
21:38:05 Klaatu Congrejo: *no copy/no modify
21:38:06 Hekate Galatea: you can give tehm as freebies
21:38:10 Masiko Preis: You can click "show in search"
21:38:16 Esther Merryman: that is sure to reach more people
21:38:21 Masiko Preis: I just copied them off other people's lands
21:38:29 Timo Daehlie: enough stuff here to pick up fos .. we can give you the full permission objects
21:38:37 Talarus Luan: Small plots, by definition, are an enticement in and of themselves.
21:38:40 Hekate Galatea: I know for a fact - people will search the freebies specifically on those sites, and will see them.
21:38:49 Fos Dagger: Would only need Copy/Trans.
21:39:01 Rem Nightfire: ok great idea
21:39:08 Hekate Galatea: I can give away stuff on my land, but I give away literally hundreds of freebies on onrez and sl exchange.
21:39:48 Masiko Preis: If it's a freebie landscaping kit or other tied in merchandise
21:39:51 Esther Merryman: there is a starter for you fos
21:39:53 Esther Merryman: is it full perm
21:39:58 Masiko Preis: You could just toss in the fountains and etc
21:40:10 Esther Merryman: if not i will send it again
21:40:11 Hekate Galatea: This week, I made a box of privacy screens. I set it for free, put in a notice about this effort.
21:40:14 Rem Nightfire: so whats the news of the week? about 6 advert spam suspensions i saw
21:40:26 Klaatu Congrejo: Well, when you take a freebie fountain or sign inworld you become the owner anyway. So I'm sure someone will eventually put them up as freebies on SLX
21:40:39 Masiko Preis: You become the owner, yes
21:40:41 Hekate Galatea: it's been going pretty well, as far as people taking htem.
21:40:48 Masiko Preis: Mine shows the creator then me as the owner.
21:40:50 Rem Nightfire: cool
21:40:57 Talarus Luan: Yes.. let's refocus on the current topic. :) Some of the item/project issues are on the agenda for later in the meeting. :)
21:41:05 Klaatu Congrejo: Great Hekate. Another method of putting the message out, I like it.
21:41:08 Timo Daehlie: people pick up a lof of stuff here too i can see in my history
21:41:11 Hekate Galatea: okee.
21:41:20 Talarus Luan: We're kinda all over the map
21:41:25 Masiko Preis: Sorry...
21:41:32 Hekate Galatea: Yes sir.
21:41:33 Masiko Preis: I'll listen til I know what's going on :P
21:41:37 Timo Daehlie: i fninished two booths too you will see this week on the grid as well
21:42:05 Talarus Luan: We have been contacted by a representative from NCI, and they want us to provide some info for their newbie classes related to scams and advertising.
21:42:09 Esther Merryman: I think textures for placing on land sales is also a good way to get the word out
21:42:14 Esther Merryman: i said earlier
21:42:19 Drongle McMahon: True ... it's hard to find a farm without Rem, Klaatu or Esther already there.
21:42:22 Timo Daehlie: all in one booth .. pick up if you want ;)
21:42:24 Rem Nightfire: great!
21:42:34 Esther Merryman: i put a few plots out
21:42:53 Fos Dagger: NCI is an excellent way to disseminate information.
21:42:58 Esther Merryman: at 50 l and took them off quickly
21:43:04 Talarus Luan: We've also been blogged about in several places, Timo has the links
21:43:07 Klaatu Congrejo: Talarus, I already spoe with any1 Gynoid about that. She's offering to start up a NCI class.
21:43:15 Klaatu Congrejo: *spoke
21:43:17 Hekate Galatea: NCI?
21:43:18 Esther Merryman: but unfortunately they only last in search about 5 mins
21:43:21 Masiko Preis: I gotta take off :(
21:43:31 Fos Dagger: Bye Masiko.
21:43:35 Talarus Luan: Yes, she is the one we have been talking to
21:43:37 Masiko Preis: Before I go, I just wanted to say, when I bought the spot where my house was located
21:43:40 Esther Merryman: so have listed some with the following message
21:43:42 Hekate Galatea: Masiko, the log will be posted online later.
21:43:44 Klaatu Congrejo: New Citizens Inc.
21:43:47 Masiko Preis: The owner had "no ad farms" in his purchase covenant
21:43:54 Masiko Preis: Most newbs would honor it, I did.
21:43:57 Masiko Preis: Okay bye yall
21:43:59 Rem Nightfire: ok masiko i lwill get the logsandmake them available
21:44:04 Talarus Luan: Thanks, Masiko :)
21:44:19 Rem Nightfire: thanks for coming
21:44:32 Esther Merryman: The best way to stop them is to Abuse Report them under the TOS for HARASSMENT, eventually LL will stop these parasites destroying all of the mainland Sims :-) Dont become a Victim! Only ADFARMER SCUMBAGS should buy overpriced land!
21:44:45 Esther Merryman: shown in description
21:45:00 Esther Merryman: this is accompanied with a picture
21:45:14 Klaatu Congrejo: Went bumber car racing earlier today with any1 Talarus. She's been a friend for ages and is keen to contribute inthis way. She's an activist from way back.
21:45:19 Esther Merryman: and the tiitle adfarming ruins sims
21:45:46 Talarus Luan: Well, AR flooding is one tactic, but LL won't act on the ARs unless they specifically violate the adfarm rule, unfortunately.
21:46:25 Drongle McMahon: They are hard to find ... and usually new farmers
21:46:30 Hekate Galatea: they don't alwasy act on those either.
21:46:42 Esther Merryman: yes but as people place reports LL must see the numbers of people
21:46:45 Hekate Galatea: I've still got the L9999 16's with ban lines around them near me.
21:46:52 Fos Dagger: I do as well.
21:46:54 Esther Merryman: upset by the practice in general
21:47:03 Esther Merryman: so could force change
21:47:04 Rem Nightfire: i AR ed that no response
21:47:22 Drongle McMahon: I ar'd some banlines with huge prices, but nothing happened (yet).
21:47:30 Rem Nightfire: yes ame here
21:47:37 Rem Nightfire: same
21:47:38 Hekate Galatea: yep. and it's frustrating
21:47:45 Esther Merryman: LL are very slow
21:47:47 Esther Merryman: and probably wont act for ages
21:47:58 Esther Merryman: but they must have some sort of log
21:48:03 Esther Merryman: of reports
21:48:09 Timo Daehlie: yeps
21:48:14 Klaatu Congrejo: To be honest, I use Ar as a last resort. I sent warning note to the offender first. Give them time to fix the problem.
21:48:28 Hekate Galatea: most of the time, they don't give a rip.
21:48:30 Talarus Luan: Well, they have the tickets, but no one is really tallying them
21:48:33 Esther Merryman: and i wouldnt mind betting that adfarming accounts for a large majority
21:48:36 Klaatu Congrejo: If they wanna debate the prob, I'm happy to oblige.
21:48:38 Hekate Galatea: plandz is not going to change it.
21:48:50 Timo Daehlie: plandz will end up like umnik
21:48:58 Hekate Galatea: hacked?
21:49:03 Talarus Luan: You have to realize just how many ARs go through their system, and the huge percentage that they consider bogus.
21:49:07 Rem Nightfire: no but he will run himself into a wall athigh speed soon
21:49:21 Fos Dagger: 50% are considered 'bougs' aproximately.
21:49:36 Klaatu Congrejo: Exactly Talarus. Flooding LL with ARs isnt gonna make it any easier for them to focus on the problem.
21:49:40 Fos Dagger: bogus*
21:49:52 Esther Merryman: surely if someone feels wronged enough to file a report
21:49:54 Hekate Galatea: and probably rightfully so, but then what about the rest of them? do they have a filter that just dumps some of them?
21:50:06 Talarus Luan: All we are doing is just making the grunts do extra work
21:50:09 Esther Merryman: then it is a problem they are unhappy about
21:50:14 Klaatu Congrejo: Yep
21:50:24 Talarus Luan: We have to hit the management hard and all the time
21:50:42 Talarus Luan: Which is why we have been camping Jack's office hours, and are going to start camping Robin's now.
21:50:45 Fos Dagger: As I understand it, and keep in mind there is NO published information on how ARs are handeled (exactly), each AR is viewed at least once my a human. But that coul dbe innacurate.
21:50:53 Esther Merryman: LL should atleast log the reason even if they dont bother to act on anything
21:51:01 Fos Dagger: by*
21:51:02 Klaatu Congrejo: Where's the schedule for the office hours posted Talarus?
21:51:20 Klaatu Congrejo: I'd like to try getting there (timezones permitting- not easy when you're in Oz).
21:51:23 Talarus Luan: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours
21:51:28 Klaatu Congrejo: OK thanks.
21:51:43 Talarus Luan: The more people, the better.
21:51:59 Esther Merryman: when is robins
21:52:05 Talarus Luan: Alright, does anyone else have any more news from the front?
21:52:33 Esther Merryman: it has already been mentioned
21:52:49 Esther Merryman: land cutting seems to be getting worse
21:52:58 Timo Daehlie: more with strategy
21:52:59 Rem Nightfire: i dont have the list talarus - it keeps growing every day so hard to wrap around it!
21:53:02 Klaatu Congrejo: Well I been pissing off some adfarmers by sending them warning notes asking them to remove their encroaching trees from my 16s and 32s.
21:53:06 Esther Merryman: more cuts than ever
21:53:15 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:53:21 Klaatu Congrejo: They try to block my information by blocking with overhanging trees.
21:53:24 Rem Nightfire: julie litvak
21:53:25 Talarus Luan: Yeah, Well, that the problem is getting worse isn't news. ;)
21:53:53 Talarus Luan: But if we have any victories in the battles, if we have more folks getting involved, if we are getting more exposure, etc.
21:54:13 Klaatu Congrejo: More exposure is they key I think.
21:54:15 Hekate Galatea: there was a 16 near me recently that had nothing on it, not for sale. I asked the owner if he'd sell it to me, apparently he didn't like my offer of L100 and he put a spinny ad and put it for sale for L1200
21:54:24 Talarus Luan: Are we getting the message across
21:54:25 Esther Merryman: have we tried reaching builders
21:54:27 Esther Merryman: and the like
21:54:28 Fos Dagger: I'd like to see LL asked to provide information on PLot sizes, i.e. number of 16m on up to Full Region. And quantity 'out there' as well as 'average quantity per SIM' for all levels.
21:54:37 Esther Merryman: i have a friend who runs a couple of sandboxes
21:54:49 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, that info shouldn't be difficult for them to collate.
21:54:52 Drongle McMahon: Hekate ... that's good ... now you can ar him
21:55:05 Talarus Luan: We have some statistics on plot ownership by some of the worst of the worst.
21:55:18 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes Hekate, that is harassment. You really should AR him.
21:55:25 Esther Merryman: i would love a list of kalyrra hearts
21:55:31 Hekate Galatea: I have to admit - I gave up. I sold my land there. It was already turning into something I didn't want.
21:55:42 Klaatu Congrejo: Oh, pity.
21:55:46 Talarus Luan: 58,208 2,938 5,707,120 98.0 (Primlands) Austin Hallard
21:55:48 Esther Merryman: so i can target her specifically
21:55:59 Talarus Luan: 57,760 2,553 4,307,477 75.0 (Primlands Supply 1) Austin Hallard
21:56:26 Talarus Luan: That is total sqm owned, plots, land value, and price per sqm
21:56:30 Drongle McMahon: what are those numbers?
21:56:44 Talarus Luan: 49,648 1,021 12,491,459 252.0 ROBO Marx
21:56:50 Esther Merryman: yes hard to understand
21:56:57 Rem Nightfire: these # of m?????
21:57:04 Esther Merryman: which is total number
21:57:08 Klaatu Congrejo: Oh. Where'd you get that info Talarus. Is it accessible?
21:57:10 Esther Merryman: sizes
21:57:12 Esther Merryman: prices etc
21:57:22 Fos Dagger: Prolly there needs to be a wall of shame with L$/SqM baddies on it....
21:57:35 Esther Merryman: yes
21:57:38 Klaatu Congrejo: We got a zoo of shame here Fos.
21:57:39 Talarus Luan: Was provided directly to us by one of the bigger land realtor databases
21:57:45 Rem Nightfire: robo get the prize
21:57:51 Esther Merryman: show the people responsible
21:57:58 Fos Dagger: lol, ture.
21:57:59 Klaatu Congrejo: Prob is, you can't name them specifically.
21:58:01 Fos Dagger: true*
21:58:09 Esther Merryman: worst offenders down to small fry
21:58:17 Drongle McMahon: san you tell what their turnover is?
21:58:21 Talarus Luan: 129,184 951 4,078,155 32.0 Keeno Tidewater
21:58:30 Talarus Luan: Not with this info
21:58:32 Rem Nightfire: oh my
21:58:49 Rem Nightfire: its a joke
21:58:58 Esther Merryman: which numbers are the land amounts
21:59:26 Esther Merryman: needs listing in amount
21:59:29 Talarus Luan: The order of the numbers is as I described above
21:59:31 Esther Merryman: prices
21:59:33 Talarus Luan: That is total sqm owned, plots, land value, and price per sqm
21:59:48 Timo Daehlie: i can give summary per region
21:59:51 Fos Dagger: I already have a device that will scan SIMs for Land Owner information, and coorilate group Ownership once you figure out the Group Key (not difficult) but I doubt it would be useful for large scale data collection.
22:00:05 Drongle McMahon: How do they estimate land value?
22:00:22 Timo Daehlie: by the rate they set them for sale too
22:00:25 Talarus Luan: By the prices set on all parcels
22:00:38 Klaatu Congrejo: So, doesn't reflect TRUE value of land.
22:01:02 Talarus Luan: No.. there is no such thing :)
22:01:19 Drongle McMahon: Also they can hide extortion by having many more reasonably priced plots.
22:01:22 Talarus Luan: That is the land value as set in the plots themselves
22:01:35 Klaatu Congrejo: I mean as defined by average land sales on LL website.
22:01:59 Esther Merryman: 58,208 sqm owned in 2,938 plots, value in 5,707usd ,120 - 98.0 per sqm
22:02:07 Esther Merryman: for austin hallard?
22:02:27 Esther Merryman: is that right
22:02:28 Talarus Luan: That is in L$, not US$
22:02:30 Talarus Luan: Yes
22:02:38 Klaatu Congrejo: Wow, and I never buy land priced more than L$5 per m, ha ha
22:02:51 Esther Merryman: 5,707L$ is not alot though
22:03:07 Talarus Luan: L$5,707,120
22:03:09 Esther Merryman: most of his plots are 1495l$
22:03:20 Talarus Luan: You misplaced the comma ;)
22:03:25 Esther Merryman: got it
22:03:29 Esther Merryman: lol
22:03:42 Timo Daehlie: madness anyway
22:03:51 Timo Daehlie: and those plots sell .. not all but they sell
22:03:58 Esther Merryman: we need to place this information
22:04:07 Rem Nightfire: thats what we HAVE to stop
22:04:12 Esther Merryman: if you send it to me iwill put it on my website
22:04:35 Klaatu Congrejo: Rems 'Caution' signs advise against extortionate pricing and gives examples.
22:04:41 Talarus Luan: Well, we don't have it for all adfarmers, just the worst offenders
22:04:59 Hekate Galatea: Is it possible to get the information on legitimate sellers, and post them as well?
22:05:02 Talarus Luan: Yes, and that is what we have to stop.
22:05:04 Fos Dagger: How often is this data updated? And how comprehensive is it? Does it cover 100% of their holdings, for sure?
22:05:20 Esther Merryman: along with an article on this stinking business practice
22:05:34 Hekate Galatea: A sort of "preferred seller" list?
22:05:36 Rem Nightfire: they hate those signs
22:05:40 Talarus Luan: I don't know, Hekate. We could ask and see if we can get that info and permission to share it publicly
22:05:43 Esther Merryman: we need to get this out to the sl magazines to
22:06:08 Talarus Luan: Understandbly, they could refuse, because that is privileged info for their clients.
22:06:11 Esther Merryman: and in addition list the ones that dont have land prices placed
22:06:14 Hekate Galatea: It would be nice to be able to give people some positive information, not just warnings.
22:06:26 Rem Nightfire: yes i agree hekate
22:06:40 Fos Dagger: I do think offering a 'Best' or 'Preffered' seller listing service could go a long way to help, provide a positive option rather than only a negative one.
22:06:45 Drongle McMahon: If they could give us info on the rate at which the extortion plots seel, that would be powerful ammunition.
22:06:49 Esther Merryman: so the level of their disruption to normal member of sl is shown
22:06:51 Talarus Luan: Most new residents won't understand that.
22:07:03 Klaatu Congrejo: Hekate, its also a problem naming names, we could open ourselves up to be ARd by people who think we have wrongly named them.
22:07:08 Esther Merryman: i dont think they can sell very fast
22:07:10 Talarus Luan: Well, we won't be able to get that, but expect that most extortion plots sell at face value
22:07:22 Talarus Luan: This info is most likely collected by bots
22:07:30 Hekate Galatea: If we are naming them as good, we could most likely get their permission.
22:07:37 Klaatu Congrejo: Oh yes.
22:07:38 Talarus Luan: and is a "snapshot" at the time the bot goes through the region
22:07:48 Klaatu Congrejo: Who wouldn't wanna be on the good list, lol
22:08:17 Hekate Galatea:
22:08:24 Fos Dagger: I don't think new residents should be the sole target of action, a multi-pronged approach is required, with some things aimed at the older demographic and others (like NCI) aimed and newer Residents.
22:08:31 Drongle McMahon: I don't think there's any need to name mames ... once people are interested they can see the names
22:08:34 Rem Nightfire: beensippin all along mmmmm
22:08:51 Klaatu Congrejo: True Drongle.
22:08:56 Talarus Luan: They aren't the sole target, to be sure, but the info is not as relevant to them
22:08:59 Timo Daehlie: names go from mouth to mouth indeed
22:09:05 Klaatu Congrejo: Anyone interested enough will just look around to see who these ppl are.
22:09:28 Esther Merryman: yes you could hint
22:09:31 Talarus Luan: It is also not real difficult to see who these people are... Just look in any adfarm
22:09:34 Fos Dagger: I'm not sure I agree about the names, I could not name one 'Good Land Seller' atm, but I could name 56 bad ones.
22:09:38 Fos Dagger: sorry, 5 bad ones.
22:09:46 Rem Nightfire: that is the idea. new folks need to be educated on clicking "About Land"
22:09:58 Talarus Luan: Yep
22:10:00 Esther Merryman: and perhaps people will come and look to see if it is who they think
22:10:43 Esther Merryman: then we can info them all up
22:10:44 Talarus Luan: Note that we CAN name names on our own websites external to LL
22:10:52 Esther Merryman: cool
22:11:01 Esther Merryman: send me the information then
22:11:04 Fos Dagger: Why can't you here? I am confused?
22:11:13 Timo Daehlie: this is inworld
22:11:15 Talarus Luan: LL's no naming names policy only matters inside venues owned by LL
22:11:17 Esther Merryman: i will definetly put it out there
22:11:24 Talarus Luan: Because it is against the ToS
22:11:30 Fos Dagger: LL says you can't post chat logs...
22:11:38 Talarus Luan: Not in the forums, not on the blog, not inworld
22:11:47 Fos Dagger: Ok, I have not gone over it in awhile, do you know about which section?
22:11:53 Rem Nightfire: so taht includes this log?
22:11:55 Esther Merryman: Ooops guess thats one of my hubbies alts bit the dust then
22:11:57 Talarus Luan: You also cannot target specific individuals, or they can (and do) report for harassment
22:12:02 Esther Merryman: lol
22:12:21 Talarus Luan: Well, publishing and talking in a meeting are two different things
22:12:24 Fos Dagger: You cannot defame them, but I thought it was perfectly ok ot state fact, as in hard numbers? I could be wrong.
22:12:29 Fos Dagger: But I have seen it done before.
22:12:30 Talarus Luan: Nope.
22:12:43 Rem Nightfire: can i send the logs of this meeting out to members?
22:12:45 Fos Dagger: Fair enough.
22:12:47 Talarus Luan: Timo has been ARed and had content removed for naming names
22:13:03 Talarus Luan: Yes, anything you do OUTSIDE of SL is not covered by the ToS
22:13:27 Fos Dagger: Agreed. Prolly I need a website, lol.
22:13:29 Timo Daehlie: it depends which person .. like umnik had to laugh but the donkey ard immidiatly
22:13:35 Esther Merryman: cool that is a good way to spread the word then
22:13:47 Esther Merryman: links to our own websites
22:14:04 Rem Nightfire: but in world as a group notice is a no no for logs?
22:14:06 Klaatu Congrejo: OK folks. I gotta log into RL for a while, earn some money for this SL moneypit.
22:14:09 Talarus Luan: Yes, get them to Hekate, and she will link them from the blog
22:14:25 Fos Dagger: Night Klaatu.
22:14:31 Talarus Luan: Take care Klaatu
22:14:32 Rem Nightfire: bye kc
22:14:33 Drongle McMahon: bye klaatu
22:14:34 Esther Merryman: ok tc klaatu
22:14:37 Timo Daehlie: good day klaatu
22:14:38 Klaatu Congrejo: Bye for now.
22:15:00 Fos Dagger: I know reposting logs without permission is against the TOS, but I for one, give my permission to repost anything I've said here.
22:15:27 Talarus Luan: Alrighty... now let's finish up the discussion on materials. :)
22:15:38 Talarus Luan: Thanks Fos. :)
22:15:54 Esther Merryman: me to
22:16:04 Talarus Luan: Timo has shown you the booth, anyone else have any new materials to share?
22:16:41 Esther Merryman: only the texture
22:16:43 Timo Daehlie: this week some more will be available too
22:17:07 Esther Merryman: i am using to place land sales
22:17:11 Hekate Galatea: I've got a box of screens I've made available.
22:17:21 Hekate Galatea: Anyone wants it, let me know.
22:17:22 Esther Merryman: you see it shows up under search for most plots
22:17:28 Talarus Luan: I'd like to have a copy :)
22:17:35 Timo Daehlie: yeah hekate i got them here too ;)
22:17:43 Esther Merryman: as people dont bother to place the picture in land normally
22:17:48 Hekate Galatea: They are high resolution images with alpha at the top.
22:17:57 Fos Dagger: Nice.
22:18:16 Talarus Luan: Thankies :)
22:18:17 Hekate Galatea: Inside the box is information too.
22:18:19 Esther Merryman: cool hekate
22:18:24 Rem Nightfire: yes please hekate
22:18:41 Drongle McMahon: Was someone going to make a tp script for the adfarm tour?
22:18:44 Hekate Galatea: heh, cool.
22:19:01 Fos Dagger: /me perks up "TP script?"
22:19:08 Drongle McMahon: I would if I knew how
22:19:13 Kyrion Yalin: Hekate, can you give me a copy? i ll translate information
22:19:18 Talarus Luan: Yeah, I have that..
22:19:46 Rem Nightfire: thank you
22:20:14 Drongle McMahon: The idea was to make a guided tour of badfarms using a tp in the fountains.
22:20:17 Esther Merryman: thanks hekate
22:20:34 Rem Nightfire: yes that would be great
22:21:05 Hekate Galatea: That would be fun, if you got some really good textures for it.
22:21:11 Fos Dagger: Would be a nightmare to update if one moved (the AdFarm, not the Fountian)
22:21:45 Drongle McMahon: Yes .. it would need some work.
22:21:48 Kyrion Yalin: thanks Hekate. i will return the translations to you this week
22:22:01 Talarus Luan: Well, I think the KISS principle applies :)
22:22:26 Fos Dagger: Where possible, lol.
22:22:47 Drongle McMahon: Maybe I'll have to read some scripting intructions...
22:23:09 Fos Dagger: I'd be happy to answer any questions I can :)
22:23:11 Talarus Luan: Give out landmarks to a central location, like here at the zoo, and then have a display which allows people to get landmarks and/or tp to other examples
22:23:22 Fos Dagger: Ahhh, prefect.
22:23:32 Esther Merryman: are you into all that BSDM stuff Fos
22:23:33 Talarus Luan: ..and SL is not rezzing things atm :-/
22:23:46 Fos Dagger: Nope, just D/s
22:23:49 Rem Nightfire: timo, does jack have specific meetings devoted to our concerns or arethey always open forum depending on who shows up?
22:24:01 Esther Merryman: lol
22:24:02 Timo Daehlie: yeah
22:24:03 Drongle McMahon: Or even an attachment with a list of locations that could be updated.
22:24:05 Timo Daehlie: its open
22:24:13 Rem Nightfire: ok
22:24:27 Timo Daehlie: but maybe if you hav a good presentation you might get a special meeting
22:24:58 Drongle McMahon: Wr could invite him on the guided tour.
22:25:00 Rem Nightfire: would that be worth it - complie theevidence, photos, etc..andshow him?
22:25:12 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:25:35 Timo Daehlie: if you present it nice yes .. but i think he is aware of the issue ..
22:25:38 Drongle McMahon: It woul be good leverage of the sign/fountain plots
22:25:42 Esther Merryman: that would show LL are open to our views
22:26:02 Timo Daehlie: every blog or forum has ad farm issue posted
22:26:11 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:26:27 Esther Merryman: yes i got my hubby to post one
22:26:30 Talarus Luan: There, that should allow you to take a copy. That's the landmark teleporter from the Wiki
22:26:32 Hekate Galatea: I really don't understand why they don't take us more seriously.
22:26:40 Esther Merryman: on the road issue
22:26:52 Hekate Galatea: Is it because they make more money on the admongers than with us?
22:26:56 Talarus Luan: It can be customized to do what we want. :)
22:27:23 Esther Merryman: i think they are not against us
22:27:25 Drongle McMahon: can't copy it here
22:27:28 Esther Merryman: specifically
22:27:55 Talarus Luan: OK try now, or buy it for L$0
22:28:00 Esther Merryman: just not eager to do anything at all but create more income for themselves as a whole
22:28:20 Talarus Luan: They don't really see it as the huge problem we do
22:28:22 Esther Merryman: the admongers are a thorn in everyones side
22:28:27 Drongle McMahon: got it
22:28:48 Rem Nightfire: whats the box?
22:28:55 Esther Merryman: we just need to show LL that it harms their business machine aswell as the game users
22:29:02 Rem Nightfire: sorry missed it
22:30:04 Talarus Luan: It's a landmark teleporter example
22:30:10 Rem Nightfire: oh thanks
22:30:25 Hekate Galatea: My jobs as a real person have mostly been in "service" industries - retail and the like. It's always been a big deal to take care of the customer - ALL of them, not just the ones that spend more or who bitch.
22:30:56 Talarus Luan: Yep, but LL is a software development company, and they are notorious for having lousy support.
22:31:15 Talarus Luan: LL is no exception to the rule, and the larger they get the worse it gets
22:31:21 Fos Dagger: Agreed, but LL is a bunch of tech-geeks (nice ones I hope) and most prolly do not have a background in Service, although the should hire some who do.
22:31:42 Talarus Luan: Well, they have, but not enough
22:31:53 Talarus Luan: and the ones who are setting policy are still "tech-geeks"
22:31:56 Esther Merryman: LL service sucks
22:32:05 Esther Merryman: everyone knows that
22:32:28 Esther Merryman: the web is full of complaints on the issue
22:32:30 Talarus Luan: I've had mixed luck with LL's support organization. Clearly, there are some real gems there.
22:32:44 Hekate Galatea: I'd take a job in their customer service department.
22:32:49 Esther Merryman: they would rather get new gimmicks into the game
22:32:54 Rem Nightfire: yes i have had some good experiences too
22:32:57 Talarus Luan: However, diamonds in a pile of excrement doesn't make it smell any better
22:33:02 Rem Nightfire: haha
22:33:03 Fos Dagger: I bet if I contact them and tell them they forgot to collect my tier last month, they take it in seconds, without investigation... (The soooo didn't forget)
22:33:07 Esther Merryman: than sort out the problems inherent to it
22:33:28 Drongle McMahon: haha ... but they help you to ignore the smell
22:33:39 Talarus Luan: Not very well. :-/
22:33:49 Esther Merryman: lol
22:34:06 Esther Merryman: they would send you a nasty reminder before you even knew they hadnt had your tier
22:34:09 Hekate Galatea: I think I'll apply for a job with them.
22:34:23 Rem Nightfire: there you go
22:34:24 Timo Daehlie: Hekate Linden
22:34:28 Talarus Luan: Anyway.. as you all get your locations set up, send us (Me and Timo) landmarks. Images if you want, though landmarks are free.
22:34:36 Esther Merryman: got a nice ring to it
22:34:42 Rem Nightfire: ok will do
22:34:46 Hekate Galatea: Tell them, "your customer service sucks, and I'd like to help change that. For the low low price of...."
22:34:57 Talarus Luan: We will set up an evidence teleporter in the Zoo here and we can link it :)
22:35:22 Rem Nightfire: what do you think is a reasonable numberof sites?
22:35:43 Fos Dagger: Is the TP site here going to use llMapTo... or give landmarks?
22:35:56 Esther Merryman: do you have a telporter that works between sims then
22:35:58 Rem Nightfire: we have literally hundreds
22:36:16 Esther Merryman: or do you use lm's
22:36:37 Esther Merryman: lhotse has to be a bad one
22:36:41 Rem Nightfire: each send our top 5?
22:37:06 Esther Merryman: surrounding a parcel has to be up in the top 5
22:37:10 Drongle McMahon: Good idea ... 5 each ... many will be the same.
22:37:19 Rem Nightfire: ok
22:37:20 Talarus Luan: Oh, take another copy of that map teleporter.. I cleaned it up so that people just can't walk by and drop landmarks in it ;)
22:37:38 Talarus Luan: Just put the script in your own prims
22:37:46 Rem Nightfire: cool
22:37:56 Esther Merryman: where is it here
22:37:59 Drongle McMahon: Need a good variety too .... roads, centre plots, banline blockades.
22:38:09 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:38:20 Rem Nightfire: parks constructed aroundad farms
22:38:28 Fos Dagger: Rename the LMs you submit with a 'type' descriptor?
22:38:49 Drongle McMahon: good
22:39:29 Fos Dagger: i.e.: ***The Ad Zoo - Main Zoo***, Zap Cannon (77, 245, 103) {Good}
22:39:47 Drongle McMahon: We could offer a prize for the worst reported farm each week?
22:39:57 Talarus Luan: yes please :)
22:39:58 Rem Nightfire: haha
22:40:13 Talarus Luan: Make a landmark here if you want :)
22:40:57 Talarus Luan: Alrighty. let's see here
22:40:58 Hekate Galatea: oh - that reminds me of an idea I had.
22:41:18 Hekate Galatea: don't let me forget about the contest.
22:41:24 Talarus Luan: Contest?
22:41:38 Hekate Galatea: I had an idea for a contest, to get people involved.
22:41:47 Rem Nightfire: say on
22:42:02 Hekate Galatea: It would be a Decorate a 16 contest.
22:42:19 Drongle McMahon: That's good
22:42:24 Esther Merryman: cool idea
22:42:25 Fos Dagger: With 3 prims? I like it...
22:42:27 Rem Nightfire: love it
22:42:34 Talarus Luan: Strategy/Planning discussion. Pretty much just the same. Get out there, make your presence known, meet the neighbors, get them on board. Meet your neighbors neighbors. Meet strangers, hand out info, the usual! :D
22:42:43 Esther Merryman: best build with 3prims
22:42:45 Hekate Galatea: yes.
22:42:47 Hekate Galatea: exactly.
22:42:50 Talarus Luan: yeah that would be a neat contest
22:43:03 Rem Nightfire: yes talarus and get you that list!
22:43:08 Drongle McMahon: I have a sculpty that's 102 separate objects in one prim...
22:43:12 Hekate Galatea: and we can all contribute towards the prizes
22:43:14 Rem Nightfire: oooo
22:43:24 Rem Nightfire: i think im outclassed here
22:43:33 Esther Merryman: we could get people to enter and offer a prize
22:43:36 Hekate Galatea: It might get some people involved who might not normally be.
22:43:52 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:43:53 Esther Merryman: a real one that would get peple involved
22:44:01 Drongle McMahon: I think that's exactly what we need
22:44:03 Hekate Galatea: It would defintely be a way to get the word out. We could give away a 16 to anyone who wants to enter.
22:44:07 Jeffrey Gomez: We had an emergency over at my end. I miss much?
22:44:12 Hekate Galatea: TONS>
22:44:14 Esther Merryman: it sure would hekate
22:44:21 Timo Daehlie: welcom jeffrey ;)
22:44:27 Hekate Galatea: If we give away 16's in the middle of ad farms....
22:44:36 Rem Nightfire: hi jeffrey
22:44:40 Talarus Luan: Yes, and I need the list of your presences in regions. :)
22:44:48 Fos Dagger: I think that is a fantastic idea, but are the 16m's not already mostly free?
22:44:51 Talarus Luan: We don't want to be double-teaming folks :)
22:44:58 Rem Nightfire: working on it! sorry ....
22:45:12 Fos Dagger: Like where we own land?
22:45:13 Talarus Luan: Poke Klaatu, too ;)
22:45:14 Esther Merryman: ok heres my list
22:45:20 Talarus Luan: Yes, which regions
22:45:28 Rem Nightfire: yes he's got more than even he knows
22:45:29 Talarus Luan: Please give in notecard form. :P
22:45:31 Fos Dagger: Moi: Tuli
22:45:35 Fos Dagger: oh, sorry.
22:45:48 Talarus Luan: That way, I don't have to sort it from a log. :D
22:46:14 Talarus Luan: I'll combine all the ones I have and give out the combined list
22:46:32 Talarus Luan: Thankies :)
22:46:37 Rem Nightfire: ok
22:47:02 Esther Merryman: theres my new list
22:47:07 Hekate Galatea: I'd be willing to run around and collect a 16 from as many farms as we need, and give them away to contestants..
22:47:14 Talarus Luan: Anyone have any questions or feel they need some guidance about what needs to be done? :)
22:47:23 Esther Merryman: i have four put up for sale at 399l
22:47:26 Timo Daehlie: i got another comment
22:47:27 Rem Nightfire: masiko talk to hekate about the 16 m parcel contest you will be interested
22:47:33 Esther Merryman: so they show in search
22:47:40 Rem Nightfire: ok timo
22:47:48 Masiko Preis: Okay
22:47:49 Timo Daehlie: arbor has asked me to reduce them land ... so if anyone sees plots of them that can be rejoined let me know
22:47:54 Talarus Luan: Anyone here know Bastex Beerbaum?
22:47:59 Esther Merryman: not sure if it is a good idea or not though
22:48:04 Fos Dagger: A % of Regions 'monitored' might be fun, if a bit disheartining...
22:48:10 Rem Nightfire: yes i have done a bit of that with them
22:48:13 Timo Daehlie: i ve the ability to sell them to residents in order to join them ;)
22:48:51 Rem Nightfire: and will look for neighbors nearby their plots
22:49:05 Talarus Luan: Also, has anyone else noticed the Dr Andel / Dr Destiny person buying up 16s?
22:49:13 Timo Daehlie: cool ;)
22:49:24 Talarus Luan: Just happened to think
22:49:27 Drongle McMahon: I saw a couple of dr destiny ones
22:49:29 Rem Nightfire: he goes for 32's and puts his fat tower up
22:49:31 Hekate Galatea: I did see dr destiny, yes. weird.
22:49:33 Fos Dagger: I've got a 64m Arbor plot in my SIM, I'll see if I can find the tier to buy it.
22:49:41 Hekate Galatea: I was afraid to click the boxes on his land.
22:49:43 Talarus Luan: Dr Andel is uying Tee Darwin and Keeno Tidewater 16s
22:49:59 Talarus Luan: *buying
22:50:07 Rem Nightfire: damn
22:50:14 Talarus Luan: Not sure why
22:50:17 Esther Merryman: probably not buying just exchanging
22:50:21 Rem Nightfire: same person?
22:50:30 Esther Merryman: seems likely
22:50:34 Talarus Luan: It's a new alt
22:50:38 Talarus Luan: No doubt about that
22:50:40 Timo Daehlie: let me know fos i can set it for sale to you ;)
22:50:45 Esther Merryman: we know they do that
22:50:50 Fos Dagger: Will do Timo.
22:50:55 Timo Daehlie: :)
22:51:04 Esther Merryman: take kalyrra and austin
22:51:15 Fos Dagger: Perhaps an suspected alt database might be usefull? Perhaps not...
22:51:23 Talarus Luan: We have that kinda
22:51:35 Talarus Luan: Join the Arbor Project and look at the blacklist website
22:51:39 Drongle McMahon: But is it public?
22:51:53 Drongle McMahon: Ah yes...
22:51:55 Esther Merryman: yes names of offenders could be used for external sites
22:51:57 Talarus Luan: Lots of folks posting suspicions and confirmations
22:52:07 Talarus Luan: I post there pretty often to keep people up to date
22:52:19 Esther Merryman: warning people not to buy from them
22:52:39 Talarus Luan: Yep
22:53:11 Talarus Luan: OK. Coming up on 2 hours here.. any other business we need to address?
22:53:25 Timo Daehlie: yes
22:53:34 Timo Daehlie: hekate offered something like a contest
22:53:42 Rem Nightfire: ithink we have made a hell of alot of progress in the last month
22:53:44 Timo Daehlie: who makes the best ad blocker
22:54:07 Talarus Luan: yes, I agree that would be a cool idea. I would like to see it developed and make it happen. :D
22:54:33 Timo Daehlie: i can reserve some land and divide it so people can use it while a jury can pick out the best
22:54:43 Rem Nightfire: cool idea
22:54:49 Esther Merryman: put the plots up i am sure you will get a hoard of contestants
22:54:54 Esther Merryman: but it will require a prize
22:54:59 Talarus Luan: Yep
22:55:01 Rem Nightfire: and a fake tower
22:55:02 Timo Daehlie: maybe some land too win like first price : 2048 land .. 2nd price 1024 and 3rd 512
22:55:05 Hekate Galatea: would it be better to have them builiding on actual adfarm land though?
22:55:20 Esther Merryman: yes sounds cool
22:55:23 Timo Daehlie: i can make an ad farm ;)
22:55:26 Hekate Galatea: That way we will also be sort of advertising the idea as well
22:55:28 Talarus Luan: Well, it depends on the rationale.
22:55:30 Rem Nightfire: haha
22:55:30 Timo Daehlie: like 4 x4 all over
22:55:32 Hekate Galatea: NO!!!!
22:55:38 Timo Daehlie: then i put a rental box neear each 4 x 4
22:55:53 Talarus Luan: The point is to make some good art that can be shared for the cause.
22:55:56 Timo Daehlie: so we can keep track of the creator
22:56:02 Timo Daehlie: yeps
22:56:13 Talarus Luan: It might be hard to run a contest in someone else's back yard
22:56:15 Hekate Galatea: right, talarus, and also to spread the word.
22:56:17 Timo Daehlie: the winner must make his object available to all people
22:56:22 Esther Merryman: yes and we could be surprised withthte results
22:56:24 Hekate Galatea: right - good thinking.
22:56:31 Hekate Galatea: I hope we are surprised.
22:56:32 Timo Daehlie: i can take a 8192 for that talarus
22:56:37 Fos Dagger: I'd love to see a blocker make it inot the Library...
22:56:49 Talarus Luan: yeah, that would be cool :)
22:56:59 Timo Daehlie: will be done
22:57:00 Esther Merryman: sculpty and particle effect builds
22:57:12 Jeffrey Gomez: I'm not sure if they'll accept politically-charged items unless a clear case is made.
22:57:15 Esther Merryman: could be great with only 3prims
22:57:16 Talarus Luan: Well, remember, we don't want to become the enemy
22:57:23 Fos Dagger: has anybody ever thought to submit one to LL for that cause? I'm guessing 98% chance of failure, but you never know.
22:57:27 Talarus Luan: spammy, laggy stuff is bad.
22:57:45 Jeffrey Gomez: Clean, single-prim walls with a public service announcement sound about par.
22:57:59 Rem Nightfire: so we have 2 contests - blocking and decorating
22:58:02 Talarus Luan: No large textures, no (or very few) particles.
22:58:09 Jeffrey Gomez: It's terribly tempting to DMCA their ad textures.
22:58:18 Masiko Preis: Hmmm what is a large texture?
22:58:31 Talarus Luan: 2048x2048 to put on a 1m square prim
22:58:36 Fos Dagger: Agreed, no textures abouve 256X256? no particles, no glow, no light sources.
22:58:39 Drongle McMahon: Ugh
22:58:48 Esther Merryman: you want quality it takes server space
22:58:50 Masiko Preis: Sorry... noob
22:58:52 Timo Daehlie: enviroment friendly
22:59:05 Esther Merryman: only one in a sim wont affect overall lag
22:59:08 Drongle McMahon: Definately not my 102 object prim then :-(
22:59:12 Talarus Luan: yes, I think that is the best policy.
22:59:14 Fos Dagger: lol
22:59:20 Timo Daehlie: lol drongle ;)
22:59:24 Esther Merryman: no not temp rez stuff
22:59:25 Talarus Luan: No temp rezzers
22:59:36 Esther Merryman: but 3 legitimate prims
22:59:38 Fos Dagger: Definatly no TORzzers.
22:59:42 Hekate Galatea: who wants to write up the contest description? any volunteers, or shall I do it?
22:59:51 Rem Nightfire: go for it
22:59:53 Fos Dagger: I vote for you Hakate :)
23:00:07 Esther Merryman: me to hekate
23:00:15 Esther Merryman: it was your great idea:-)
23:00:19 Talarus Luan: Far be it from me to put more work on you, my lovely lady, but it would be best being your idea. :D
23:00:25 Hekate Galatea: I'll write something up and see what you thik of it.
23:00:31 Fos Dagger: What about script limits? 3 total enough?
23:00:33 Hekate Galatea: It's my day off, what the heck.
23:00:36 Talarus Luan: Hehe
23:00:54 Talarus Luan: yes, though you could have classes, maybe.. 16/32/64 etc
23:01:02 Talarus Luan: so, 3/7/14 prims
23:01:16 Talarus Luan: Just a suggestion
23:01:22 Esther Merryman: do a three prim
23:01:24 Esther Merryman: first
23:01:29 Esther Merryman: see how it goes
23:01:32 Fos Dagger: Might be getting a bit to complex there.
23:01:37 Esther Merryman: then another contest
23:01:39 Drongle McMahon: I would stick to 3 prims
23:01:42 Esther Merryman: and so on
23:01:46 Hekate Galatea: three prim, no script?
23:01:48 Fos Dagger: Seperate compitions after for 32m etc?
23:01:54 Hekate Galatea: that would be cool.
23:01:55 Esther Merryman: keeps the cause in the spotlight
23:01:57 Talarus Luan: Aye, works for me.. just pointing out a possibility :)
23:02:06 Fos Dagger: maybe allow one script?
23:02:09 Fos Dagger: Just in case?
23:02:20 Fos Dagger: And cuse I am a scripter... *hides*
23:02:21 Timo Daehlie: wildy spin script ? :))
23:02:25 Fos Dagger: No!
23:02:26 Timo Daehlie: wildly
23:02:42 Hekate Galatea: we can have a separate category for scripted ones
23:02:45 Fos Dagger: Give LM script?
23:02:47 Drongle McMahon: How laggy can one script be? ...another competition...
23:02:53 Rem Nightfire: haha
23:02:54 Fos Dagger: Very.
23:02:56 Esther Merryman: quite
23:02:58 Esther Merryman: lol
23:02:59 Jeffrey Gomez: People are using Mono to crash sims.
23:03:03 Fos Dagger: I can win that one no problem :P
23:03:05 Hekate Galatea: mono?
23:03:13 Fos Dagger: New LSL2 compiler.
23:03:14 Jeffrey Gomez: In the beta grid. The new VM for LSL.
23:03:20 Fos Dagger: Only avaliable on the Berta grid right now.
23:03:24 Hekate Galatea: we can have categories, rather than separate contests.
23:03:26 Fos Dagger: Beta*
23:03:42 Masiko Preis: Categories are actually good
23:03:45 Hekate Galatea: I like Berta, good name for it.
23:03:47 Fos Dagger: But not too many, or it'll become a logistical nightmare.
23:03:50 Esther Merryman: best to have seperate contests
23:03:51 Drongle McMahon: It will last longer if you have successive contests
23:03:54 Jeffrey Gomez: (And to nitpick, they compile to LSL3 before it goes to Mono. ;))
23:03:57 Esther Merryman: to drag them out
23:04:01 Esther Merryman: keeps people coming back
23:04:05 Hekate Galatea: Well, we can start with one simple one, to get started.
23:04:07 Masiko Preis: Because some people are texture artists, some are prim sculptures, some are scripters
23:04:13 Hekate Galatea: and see how much attention it gets.
23:04:15 Masiko Preis: I couldn't script to save my life
23:04:19 Fos Dagger: :P (to Jeffrey, although he's right..)
23:04:56 Esther Merryman: yes so no need to catagorise just make a desision at the end
23:04:58 Fos Dagger: I agree with starting with on, simple, contest, then applying what is learning from that one to craft the next.
23:05:02 Esther Merryman: top three
23:05:03 Talarus Luan: Alrighty, well, let's see how the writeup comes out, and then let's plan to advertise it.
23:05:08 Jeffrey Gomez: I'm just waiting for the ideas to come full-circle and, suddenly we have people posting camping areas on 16s with picket signs.
23:05:40 Masiko Preis: Camping is annoying
23:06:01 Fos Dagger: I hope that will never happen.
23:06:34 Talarus Luan: Next meeting as per usual. :) Any last issues to bring up before we close?
23:06:37 Rem Nightfire: gtg folks lots of great ideas today. thanks everyonefor the work you all do
23:06:48 Talarus Luan: Thank you, Rem. :)
23:06:49 Fos Dagger: Night Rem.
23:06:51 Esther Merryman: bye rem
23:06:54 Masiko Preis: Bye Rem
23:06:58 Rem Nightfire: bye
23:06:58 Timo Daehlie: later Rem ;)
23:07:01 Masiko Preis: Thanks for letting me know about all this.
23:07:05 Drongle McMahon: bye rem
23:07:20 Talarus Luan: Quite welcome, Masiko. Spread the word. Bring your friends. :D
23:07:38 Talarus Luan: It affects residents from all over SL
23:07:41 Masiko Preis: Sure Talarus :P I will get to work on making some of those.... friends.. you refer to
23:07:58 Masiko Preis: I believe it does Talarus so I am just absorbing the information.
23:08:01 Talarus Luan: Shouldn't be too tough... you just made about 10 today ;)
23:08:08 Masiko Preis: lol true...
23:08:38 Talarus Luan: It really is pretty simple. :) Just meet people and share ideas and concerns
23:08:48 Masiko Preis: Yeah well...
23:08:49 Talarus Luan: This concerns every mainland landowner
23:08:56 Masiko Preis: I'm new, I make friends with a lot of new people
23:09:00 Talarus Luan: as well as any future potential one
23:09:06 Masiko Preis: Yeah it does concern every mainalnd landowner
23:09:14 Masiko Preis: err mainland
23:09:47 Talarus Luan: Alrighty. Thanks everyone for coming again, and thank you all for your efforts! We are making a difference!
23:10:02 Talarus Luan: Now, let's get out there and make it happen!
23:10:06 Talarus Luan: :D
23:10:10 Timo Daehlie: and till next meeting off course ;)
23:10:15 Hekate Galatea: Go Team! Rah Rah! ===== Close Log 2008-06-15T23:10:17.500110Z =====