21:12:31 Timo Daehlie: take a saeat imy and welcome .. ;)
21:12:33 Klaatu Congrejo: Hi Timy1
21:12:41 Talarus Luan: Alrighty. First I want to thank you all for taking the time out of your rest day and coming to discuss with us this issue. :)
21:12:45 Shaira Babii: sit Timy
21:12:46 Timy1 Leakey: hello everyone
21:12:51 Timy1 Leakey: sorry i am late
21:13:16 Talarus Luan: Did everyone get the "War Declaration" notecard?
21:13:21 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:13:26 Timy1 Leakey: yes
21:13:39 Hope Zinner: I got the AdZoo, is that it?
21:13:52 Klaatu Congrejo: Yep
21:13:55 Timo Daehlie: yes the attachment ;)
21:14:15 Talarus Luan: I suppose it is a tad on the melodramatic side, but I think it quite concisely sums up what many of us have been feeling and saying on the issue for so long.
21:14:55 Timo Daehlie: yep i think everyone in here has had a confrontation with a adcutter
21:15:02 Talarus Luan: It is quite obvious that the only real way we are going to become free from the parasites who plague us is by taking our grievance to their bottom line.
21:15:08 Rem Nightfire: ooo yea
21:15:16 Klaatu Congrejo: plenty
21:15:44 Talarus Luan: Eventually, LL will probably take more direct and specific action against all kinds of extortion and harassing behavior, but for now, we CAN do something about it.
21:15:50 Timo Daehlie: we been visiting jack linden office hours too to give this issue attention ..
21:16:43 Talarus Luan: To do this, we basically have to expand the population of those who know, understand, and care about the problem beyond those in this room, in our groups, and just our friends and confidants.
21:17:10 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes agreed.
21:17:17 Timo Daehlie: more action ;)
21:17:29 Talarus Luan: As long as there are people out there who do NOT know they can resist, and end up giving in to the parasites, we will always be plagued by them.
21:18:02 Talarus Luan: Is there anyone who needs a quick primer about the problem, and why it requires this level of action?
21:18:43 Klaatu Congrejo: I think our own individual experiences are our primer. Unless someone here does NOT know there is a problem?
21:19:03 Shaira Babii: we know the problem :-/
21:19:08 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:19:19 Timo Daehlie: and the persons behind it as well
21:19:49 Talarus Luan: Aye, I think we all should be pretty well-aware, I just want to make sure that the rationale for going to the level of a "war" is understood and shared by all. Some people may feel it is a bit extreme, as it will require significant amounts of effort to "win".
21:20:01 Klaatu Congrejo: Oh yes, the same villains are on all our lists, I'm sure.
21:20:04 Timo Daehlie: hello bluegin ;))
21:20:08 Rem Nightfire: thats why we are here
21:20:26 Klaatu Congrejo: Hi BlueGin
21:20:29 BlueGin Yifu: Hey, Timo. ... hello everyone. sorry I'm late.
21:20:42 Timo Daehlie: no worry we just started ;))
21:20:44 Drongle McMahon: For me, I am not too happy about using the term "war". It may exacerbate the problem.
21:20:47 Talarus Luan: It is basically the same rationale why you cannot let one pregnant female cockroach live, because she will repopulate your household all by herself.
21:21:40 Timo Daehlie: well we are with plenty people enought to take some serious action .. not only the people that are here but many more
21:22:01 Talarus Luan: Aye, I understand. It was a highly charged metaphor chosen as an expression of the combined disgust and ire, and also to really give people a sense of the level of commitment required.
21:22:11 Timo Daehlie: and if we all want to do some efforts we can make a nice strategy in oder to end this issue
21:22:33 Talarus Luan: If we're going to bother to fight this problem, we really need to be committed, because a half-hearted effort will be nearly totally ineffective.
21:22:58 Klaatu Congrejo: Drongle, believe me when I tell you - adfarmers & landcuttersuse the same language when talking about we who oppose their methods.
21:23:12 Talarus Luan: Yes, they do.
21:23:16 Drongle McMahon: No doubt.
21:23:55 Talarus Luan: You have to understand that these people are /committed/ to their business model. It takes an awful lot for someone to keep their conscience at bay and scam people.
21:24:06 Talarus Luan: ..presuming they had one in the first place.
21:24:39 Talarus Luan: So, in order to discourage them, we have to be at least as committed, and probably moreso.
21:25:00 Rem Nightfire: so what are our plans in this struggle/war?
21:25:12 Talarus Luan: In the end, we cannot simply ban them off the mainland. We have to beat them at their own game, and within the ToS, which makes it a bit tougher.
21:25:37 Timo Daehlie: look on the nboard behind you Rem .. that and some other ideas we can discuss and work out ;)
21:25:54 Rem Nightfire: got it
21:25:59 Timo Daehlie: its a short summary ;)
21:26:03 Talarus Luan: As outlined in the notecard, we have several main angles, which Timo has expanded upon in his list over there
21:26:09 Timo Daehlie: any more ideas welcom off course ;)
21:26:43 BlueGin Yifu: Is there any possibility of getting their methods outlawed in the TOS????
21:26:53 Timo Daehlie: yes there is ;)
21:27:09 Talarus Luan: Our first is to come up with materials to provide to people which 1) educate them about the problem, 2) show them how to deal with the problem when they encounter it, and 3) give them the tools to do it.
21:27:21 Timo Daehlie: during the office hours jack linden told us to show prove to him .. but the problem is to find the prove ;)
21:27:39 Talarus Luan: IE, here's the problem, here's what you can do about it, and here are the tools to do it.
21:28:06 Rem Nightfire: all he has to do is go out and click on some 16 m plots
21:28:23 Timo Daehlie: yeah true rem ;)
21:28:35 Timo Daehlie: 9999 L$ for a plot is insane
21:28:43 Drongle McMahon: Interesting that he said that. Maybe some evidence collection is worthwhile.
21:28:59 Timo Daehlie: yes drongle ;)
21:29:09 Talarus Luan: What we need to do for this is come up with written materials, a lot of which we have already from the Ad Zoo's efforts; we just need to expand on them a bit, and target them to the average mainland landowner.
21:29:17 Timo Daehlie: has anyone here offending conversation with an ad cutter ?
21:29:19 Drongle McMahon: There are some people living next to adplots who have a good story to tell.
21:29:22 Klaatu Congrejo: As Jack said in his last office hours though, its not enough to say "look they're asking too much for that 16m block". We have to be able to show that price is set to intimidate and extort ppl.
21:29:28 BlueGin Yifu: Should we start taking photos and sending them to Jack Linden? Is he the contact on this topic?
21:29:31 Talarus Luan: Also, evidence of the problem in pictures and words.
21:29:47 Rem Nightfire: not one that was a TOS violation
21:29:54 Timo Daehlie: yes bluegin but only a proper presentation would work with jack linden
21:30:00 Talarus Luan: Things like what we have behind me on the image viewer.
21:30:02 Timo Daehlie: but we got his attention somehow
21:30:03 Shaira Babii: do you all use the clocktower probe, and is that updated
21:30:19 BlueGin Yifu: I use the probe.
21:30:23 Talarus Luan: yes, we use both clocktower and landmine.
21:30:34 Timo Daehlie: but never use them both at one plot
21:30:36 Talarus Luan: (not together on the same parcel, though ;) )
21:30:43 Shaira Babii: we need to bring that out to the masses
21:31:00 Drongle McMahon: I think a deatiled study of the development of new plots would help....who buys them abd why.
21:31:06 Timo Daehlie: yes that we can do in little kiosks and booths we can make
21:31:18 Rem Nightfire: those folks have so many alts i wonder how effective the probes are
21:31:20 Talarus Luan: Well, there are a few issues that need to be addressed in terms of ban/eject/tp home devices and etiquette in using them
21:31:25 Klaatu Congrejo: Good question Shaira. How often do those things (clocktower & landmine) get updated?
21:31:29 Talarus Luan: I'll get to those in a moment.
21:31:36 Klaatu Congrejo: OK Talarus.
21:31:37 Timo Daehlie: right drongle .. who is connected with who etc ;)
21:31:59 Timo Daehlie: klaatu ... xerses goff updates it .. i ask him some times to add some names but he also forgets
21:32:13 Timo Daehlie: i ll put him some more under pressure
21:32:16 Klaatu Congrejo: OK Timo.
21:32:20 Talarus Luan: We also would like to have signs and information kiosks that landowners can put out near the parasites' plots to help educate people who might be there looking to buy them
21:32:29 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:32:40 Klaatu Congrejo: Well , I can help there.
21:32:48 Rem Nightfire: and ads for people who want a tower blocked from their view
21:32:57 Klaatu Congrejo: I got plots in more then 60 regions (some of them 16s right in the middle of adfarms).
21:33:01 Talarus Luan: The more, the merrier, as far as I am concerned
21:33:16 Timo Daehlie: ok so we need to create booths and kiosks
21:33:22 Timo Daehlie: who wants to work on that ?
21:33:30 Shaira Babii: I have 2
21:33:33 Klaatu Congrejo: Booths gotta be low prim.
21:33:37 Shaira Babii: 3
21:33:52 Klaatu Congrejo: 3 prims for a 16m , 7 for a 32 - remember?
21:34:02 Talarus Luan: On the one hand, we don't want to become an eyesore ourselves, but I think we are a creative enough bunch to come up with things that are aesthetically appealing, and also do a very good job of identifying and educating people who see them.
21:34:15 Timo Daehlie: ok that will be like a sign with notecardgiver ?
21:34:18 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:34:19 Shaira Babii: I can buy many more and help
21:34:28 Klaatu Congrejo: I think that is definitely he way to go Timo.
21:34:52 Timo Daehlie: klaatu shall we work together on that ? and any other who wants too can join
21:34:57 Talarus Luan: We also will be recruiting people like Sarah Nerd, who have committed to putting up our materials on all the plots they have for sale
21:35:16 Shaira Babii: maybe create a new probe, that give bonus to a land owner that eject one of the bad guys
21:35:25 Klaatu Congrejo: We (Rem & I) have a similar project going - called 'Healing The Land'. We put 2prim fountains on 16m blocks (or larger) and the notecard giver script hands out info.
21:35:32 Timo Daehlie: shairi !
21:35:34 Timo Daehlie: good point
21:35:46 Timo Daehlie: i will ask yohan pintens if possible
21:35:48 Talarus Luan: Aye, we have discussed coming up with our own probe.
21:35:51 Rem Nightfire: and the caution signs
21:36:01 Talarus Luan: I can script anything like that.
21:36:04 Shaira Babii: and also log them
21:36:47 Timo Daehlie: ok talarus .. but yohans database contains over 2,2 milliion m2
21:37:09 Timo Daehlie: he wants to coorporate so maybe you can ask access
21:37:25 Talarus Luan: OK. Before we go any farther, what I would like to do is to start having us look at the various things we need to do and coming up with some kind of organizational structure for the effort. Mainly, start identifying general project areas, and start building teams and leads around them.
21:37:52 Talarus Luan: We're already heading that way anyway, so we might as well formalize the process a bit. :)
21:38:07 Rem Nightfire: what do you think of placing ads for landowners who want to block a tower?
21:38:37 Timo Daehlie: where to place that ad ? in here ?
21:38:54 Talarus Luan: Well, I think we most certainly can provide the landowner with the materials/prims, and show them how to encase them.
21:38:59 Rem Nightfire: on SL classifieds or something
21:39:21 Talarus Luan: Oh, you mean as an incentive?
21:39:26 Timo Daehlie: maybe can put an add board in here
21:39:36 Hope Zinner: Is anything that you create here, offered on slexchange or onrez?
21:39:46 Rem Nightfire: yes and we could do the work for them if they dont know how
21:39:51 Timo Daehlie: nope hope ;)
21:39:54 Klaatu Congrejo: Well if adevertisers can put their ads on classifieds, why can't we put our 'anti-ads' on classifieds, lol
21:40:07 Talarus Luan: Oh, definitely. :)
21:40:22 Hope Zinner: Why can't you offer these boxes and such as freebies on sl exchange?
21:40:35 Talarus Luan: Get some donations going, set a budget, and start plastering the classifieds
21:40:37 Klaatu Congrejo: Good idea Hope.
21:40:42 Talarus Luan: We could, Hope. Definitely. :)
21:40:44 Hope Zinner: Would that be against TOS in any way?
21:40:46 Timo Daehlie: i will do ;)
21:40:49 Timo Daehlie: i think so maybe
21:41:08 Talarus Luan: Well, here's the big NO-NO regarding this process:
21:41:13 Timo Daehlie: in the box there are still textures with pictures and names .. nicknames but a cutter might feel offended
21:41:18 Shaira Babii: we must learn new players to avoid paying 777L for 16sqm blocks, as I did in the beginning
21:41:24 Talarus Luan: We cannot name names or directly attack the person or group in any way.
21:41:28 rm Sirbu: we can use textures in snapshots of our lands to advertise
21:41:35 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:41:41 Hope Zinner: Maybe not if you don't name names, just speak of unpleasant views or something.
21:42:08 Talarus Luan: That's harassment, according to LL, but we CAN point out their actions and effects, and where people can find out who we are talking about
21:42:24 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes rm, there are some pic examples here at AdZoo we could use too
21:42:36 Talarus Luan: There's nothing LL can do or say about us posting names on a third-party website.
21:42:41 Kyrion Yalin: and i will be happy to translate all your information to portuguese and french, if needed
21:42:52 Talarus Luan: Awesome, Kyrion. :)
21:42:53 Timo Daehlie: dutch here ;)
21:43:04 Klaatu Congrejo: Cool Kyrion. Have we got other translators here?
21:43:32 Talarus Luan: OK, so we need a project team to organize our written materials ("propaganda" ;) ), as well as do translations.
21:43:56 Talarus Luan: We need a project team to do the same with our prim/image materials as well.
21:43:59 Timo Daehlie: you mean like promoting it on blogs etc ?
21:44:01 Rem Nightfire: i would be willing to work on the ads for blocking towers
21:45:03 Klaatu Congrejo: I'm happy to work on notes to be put in the notecard-givers.
21:45:13 Timo Daehlie: ok i join rem ;)
21:45:15 Talarus Luan: One more team for any specific technical materials we need (IE, our own "probe", any scripted objects to assist).
21:45:22 Rem Nightfire: great
21:45:46 Talarus Luan: Then, we need the teams who will be our infantry.
21:45:50 Shaira Babii: Klaatu, just make sure the givers don't spam so we be the bad guys
21:46:05 Hope Zinner: What does the "probe" do?
21:46:06 Timo Daehlie: :))
21:46:11 Timy1 Leakey: yes this is very important
21:46:20 Timo Daehlie: the probe can ban them or send them home
21:46:28 Talarus Luan: Those who will go out, seek, and meet with landowners all over the grid, give them our materials, and educate them. :)
21:46:39 Timo Daehlie: soo it makes it unpossible for cutters to buy certain land
21:46:41 Talarus Luan: Focusing on the mainland
21:47:02 Timo Daehlie: something for you rm ?
21:47:06 Talarus Luan: There are only around 3500 mainland regions, I believe the last number I saw was.
21:47:16 Klaatu Congrejo: I think we can start with neighbours in our own regions with that plan Talarus.
21:47:34 Timo Daehlie: eh eh klaatu i am in 200 regions lol ;))
21:47:53 Talarus Luan: Definitely, though we need someone who is a good "General" to organize and keep track of where we have been and where we need to go next. :)
21:47:57 Rem Nightfire: i know this may be a philosophical difference, but i am less concerbed with naming names and ejecting than with just trying to smother them out. i think they dont really care if they are seen as the bad guys or are banned from lands
21:48:05 Klaatu Congrejo: Cool, we got a big network reach then!
21:48:15 Talarus Luan: Aye, Rem, I think that is true.
21:48:22 Hope Zinner: /me agrees with Rem.
21:48:26 Drongle McMahon: I agree with you there Rem
21:48:30 Talarus Luan: The networked banlist/landmine stuff is sidereal.
21:48:32 Timo Daehlie: i already got ARD before rem
21:48:34 Klaatu Congrejo: Rem is right. Exposure is oxygen to the adfarmers, Blocking their ads denies them that oxygen.
21:48:37 Timo Daehlie: using names
21:48:56 Timo Daehlie: encroaching llc punishes too so we must act within the lines
21:49:08 Timo Daehlie: but we can be stuubtile and nasty ;)
21:49:11 Talarus Luan: We will provide it as one of the tools; it will be entirely up to the landowner to decide whether to use it.
21:49:35 Talarus Luan: Our primary and focused goal is mass education.
21:49:41 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:49:47 Hope Zinner: I read something on the forum, where an adfarmer was defending herself, and she thanked the original poster/complainer for providing free advertising.
21:49:52 Rem Nightfire: and smothering
21:50:02 BlueGin Yifu: I agree, Rem. I think as long as there is a way to do this in the TOS, there will be people taking advantage of the loophole. I think some of the people doing this are alternate avs......... all they do is make the ad land. We are not going to change them by making them feel bad.
21:50:13 Talarus Luan: The less people buying their overpriced crap, the less resolve they will have to continue cutting it.
21:50:32 Timo Daehlie: we must reduce their income
21:50:35 Talarus Luan: Tier may be cheap on one 16sqm, but if they are sitting on a couple thousand that aren't selling, it REALLY starts to hurt.
21:50:40 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:50:41 Hope Zinner: Customer, citizen education is the way to go.
21:50:44 Timo Daehlie: yeps ;)
21:50:52 Drongle McMahon: It has to be. The only way is to get people to stop buying from them.
21:51:01 Timo Daehlie: explain all land owners that if they buy a 16m2 out a cutter can buy 3 back in other regions
21:51:18 Talarus Luan: It is also critically important that we not only educate, but give morale and moral support to help folks resist the urge to just "buy them out"/.
21:51:32 Hope Zinner: Telarus is right.
21:52:03 Drongle McMahon: Yes. It is hard for people to resist clearing their own view just for the greater good.
21:52:07 Hope Zinner: It is very hard to resist. The temptation is just to get rid of them and then the problem will go away.
21:52:18 Skylarian Isachenko: You cannot over feed a weed, it will die only by attrition. Not to interupt or anything
21:52:22 Timo Daehlie: what about putting small dont buy signs all over sl nearby ad farms ?
21:52:26 Drongle McMahon: This is why societies have laws.
21:52:32 Talarus Luan: That's why the information and history about what land extortion is all about must be clear and concise in our materials. We want people to understand why it is so critically important for them to fight back.
21:52:41 Rem Nightfire: thars where the parks come in it doesnt hurt a park to have little blocks in it they can be walled off to illustrate the problem and the park can still be beautiful
21:52:47 Hope Zinner: So providing an alternative, like free Prims with scenic views would be just as good or not better.
21:53:07 Timo Daehlie: hello hekate ;))
21:53:11 Talarus Luan: Yes, definitely.
21:53:13 Klaatu Congrejo: In my parks, i have a notecard giver saying "wouldt it be nice if these parks where everywhere instead of ugly adfarms"
21:53:22 Rem Nightfire: yes
21:53:25 BlueGin Yifu: I like the idea of putting our own signs on the property we are selling......... that way our counter-ads would only be up for as long as the property is for sale.
21:53:34 Hekate Galatea: hello, all.
21:53:36 BlueGin Yifu: KC, your parks are very nice.
21:54:08 Shaira Babii: yes, if someone can make good signs, I should love it
21:54:24 Shaira Babii: I use the don't buy
21:54:42 Timo Daehlie: i go make some better ones
21:54:43 Shaira Babii: but they are ignored
21:54:45 Klaatu Congrejo: Thanks BlueGin. Talarus, is there any progress on what I heard that LL are considering making 'land for sale' options to put a box where you can list all the ppl Not allowed to buy the land.
21:54:56 Timo Daehlie: also prefab 4 x 4 blockers
21:55:33 Talarus Luan: Well, I have not heard anything, but that really isn't going to stop anyone for long. 5 minutes, and their new land purchase agent alt gets around it.
21:55:38 Shaira Babii: why not make it so banned folks can't buy
21:55:46 Shaira Babii: but they will use alts
21:55:55 Talarus Luan: Free/Open Registration 4tl
21:55:56 Hope Zinner: exactly.
21:56:02 Timy1 Leakey: yes, you cant control it
21:56:13 Klaatu Congrejo: But I think not allowing 'alts' to buy could also be an option.
21:56:32 Hope Zinner: Smothering them is really the best way...Making it no longer a money maker.
21:56:44 Shaira Babii: you mean they must have a paid account
21:56:53 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes Shaira
21:56:56 Timy1 Leakey: yes
21:56:57 Shaira Babii: ok
21:57:08 Rem Nightfire: i have presented a LandTrust idea to jack and dee where landowners could put their land into the trust and be assured that it wont be cut into pieces smaller than 256 m
21:57:21 Rem Nightfire: no response
21:57:23 Hope Zinner: But can't each paid account have 5 alts? That's a lot of names to keep up with.
21:57:41 Hekate Galatea: Have they ever considered making land sales up to seller approval?
21:57:44 Talarus Luan: Aye, I think that is along the same proposals that have been made reagarding solutions. Limiting min parcel sizes, tier expense per sim, etc.
21:58:12 Klaatu Congrejo: Hmm, just a thought. I'm sure some bright spark could find a way around that though.
21:58:21 Talarus Luan: Unfortunately, as you can see from previous Jack Linden chats, they don't yet see the problem the same way we do.
21:58:28 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, the Land Trust is a good idea I think.
21:58:49 Timo Daehlie: up to us to show that to jack
21:58:50 Talarus Luan: Usually, the response is "the problem is abating.. just be patient.. the numbers show it is going down"
21:58:58 Shaira Babii: but there is also groups that put probes, they will be effected by restrictions of min size
21:59:14 Talarus Luan: Aye.
21:59:34 Rem Nightfire: yes that is the glitch havent worked that one out yet!
22:00:05 Talarus Luan: Anyway, we probably need to keep on track here. As much as we could come up with solutions, the one problem remains: what to do while waiting on LL to implement more.
22:00:12 Shaira Babii: but they can ask another land owner for permission to put a probe
22:00:31 Talarus Luan: That's what this is all about; we're not waiting anymore.
22:00:49 Klaatu Congrejo: Information and assisting others who are having problems is what I think we've agreed on so far.
22:00:57 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:01:21 Talarus Luan: When/if LL takes effective and more complete action against land extortionists and adfarms, then that will nicely dovetail into our efforts, but until then, we are all we have.
22:01:33 Rem Nightfire: agreed
22:01:42 Shaira Babii: yes
22:02:05 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, thats true
22:02:06 Shaira Babii: lets fight them :-)
22:02:18 Timo Daehlie: 24hrs ;))
22:02:35 Klaatu Congrejo: Thats the feeling I get from LL, that we have to try and deal with this ourselves until they can come up with a solution.
22:02:44 Talarus Luan: I won't kid any of you; it isn't going to be easy. It will take time, effort, and frustration.
22:03:00 Hekate Galatea: I think we're used to that.
22:03:06 Timo Daehlie: ;))
22:03:13 Rem Nightfire: yea, but its a blast
22:03:23 Klaatu Congrejo: We've all experience the frustration for so long anyway.
22:03:26 Talarus Luan: But, there is a lot of good that will come of it. For one thing, we will have an opportunity to meet many new people and get them involved in what we are doing, plus we WILl make some new friends. :)
22:03:56 Hope Zinner: Does anyone here read the second life forums?
22:04:08 Shaira Babii: we all have invite permission to this group :-)
22:04:10 Talarus Luan: Maybe make an enemy or two when we find sleeper agents of the land extortionists, but meh; that's just part of war. ;)
22:04:15 Timo Daehlie: i read but hardly place comments
22:04:17 Klaatu Congrejo: Sometimes, Hope.
22:04:18 Talarus Luan: Aye, I keep up with the forums.
22:04:38 Hope Zinner: There is a lot of good information there sometimes.
22:04:48 Timo Daehlie: we ve a team for that ?
22:05:12 Talarus Luan: Aye. Alright, let's get to the part where we have takeaway assignments for the meeting.
22:06:05 Talarus Luan: I will sit down with Timo, and help formalize the structure a bit, then post it in the group. We're also setting up a website to help us communicate and organize.
22:06:20 Shaira Babii: good
22:06:51 Rem Nightfire: great can we have the transcript to to send out to our group members who couldnt make it today?
22:07:02 Hekate Galatea: (and those who were a bit late?)
22:07:08 Talarus Luan: Everyone who wants to contribute in any capacity, feel free to sign up for it and jump right in. Those who also want to help organize and manage, please let us know what you are interested in.
22:07:21 Talarus Luan: Yes, I will link the transcript once I close it
22:07:29 Rem Nightfire: thanks
22:07:42 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, let's not forget that some of us here represent groups and we need to feedback to them.
22:07:51 Talarus Luan: It logs to a website, so it is just a matter of making it public and posting the URL ;)
22:07:54 Timo Daehlie: is everyone inhere member of the ad zoo already ?
22:07:56 Talarus Luan: Absolutely. :)
22:08:00 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:08:03 Melodie Darwin: no
22:08:12 Kyrion Yalin: yes
22:08:29 Talarus Luan: Easier to ask who isn't, but wishes to be. ;)
22:08:48 Timo Daehlie: grammer ;)
22:08:49 Hope Zinner: I have a confession, I don't even own or rent land. I have a basic account. I just want to help.
22:09:06 Talarus Luan: That's OK. There's definitely a place for everyone here.
22:09:11 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:09:19 Hope Zinner: I hate adfarms.
22:09:32 Talarus Luan: It's not an exclusive club, as the problem affects everyone, even bystanders and visitors
22:09:37 Timo Daehlie: what would you like to do hope ?
22:09:44 Klaatu Congrejo: On our Notecard messages we should also inform about all the groups involved so ppl can join and keep informed (AdZoo, Arbor, my own groups, etc).
22:09:57 Talarus Luan: Good idea, Klaatu
22:10:03 Hope Zinner: Explore in beautiful areas. That sums it up. And attend discussion groups.
22:10:24 Hope Zinner: Oh,lol for the group?
22:10:28 Timo Daehlie: yes ;)))
22:10:34 Hekate Galatea: I'd like something I could add to some of the things I sell, a notecard perhaps. Something that tells about it to someone who's never heard.
22:10:39 Hope Zinner: Let me think.
22:11:01 Talarus Luan: That's a good idea, too, hekate.
22:11:03 Klaatu Congrejo: I can help you with that if you like Hekate
22:11:16 Hekate Galatea: My group isn't directly involved in anti-adfarm, but I sell enough that it may get the word out some.
22:11:30 Klaatu Congrejo: As a journalist, writing Notes and stuff is my speciality, lol
22:11:56 Talarus Luan: Oh, one more project team will be a group who recruits and staffs the Welcome centers, giving out information to newbies.
22:12:09 Timo Daehlie: hehehe rm is good with newbies lol ;))
22:12:25 Talarus Luan: I would also like to get the info to some of the SL Mentors as well, but I am not sure what the rules are on them passing out info.
22:12:30 Timo Daehlie: and she is often in the zoo ;)
22:12:59 Kyrion Yalin: as a second life mentor, sometimes i go to help islands. i can give notecards to newbies
22:13:02 Talarus Luan: I am also looking to confer with Raymond Figtree, whom I am told has written a wonderful newbie guide to land ownership.
22:13:07 Klaatu Congrejo: Newbies are the most vulnerable, so yes, we MUST address that.
22:13:10 Rem Nightfire: Klaatu's directory of protedted lands would be a good thing to hand out
22:13:36 Talarus Luan: Hopefully, I can catch him before he totally disappears on his sabbatical
22:13:56 Talarus Luan: Aye, all of these materials would be great to include as a package deal to give out to folks.
22:14:32 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, I can let you have all that. Its mainly a directory to our 'rescued' lands.
22:14:39 Talarus Luan: Cool. :)
22:14:43 Hekate Galatea: Hmm. I wonder if I could build a freebie something...maybe cages? that include that information
22:14:46 Timo Daehlie: i would also suggest more meeting on a regular basis or something
22:14:53 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:14:57 Rem Nightfire: even weekly
22:15:02 Talarus Luan: Alrighty. I think we've covered most everything I had. Yes, future meetings.
22:15:34 Timo Daehlie: well this time has got the greatest potentian reach
22:15:36 Kaeru Yosuke: hi there!
22:15:38 Klaatu Congrejo: A cage with an adnimal in it? An adnimal giving out anti-ad information - that would be cool Hekate!
22:15:43 Timo Daehlie: ola kaeru ;)
22:15:44 Talarus Luan: While we are in the preparation phase, regular meetings will be good to keep everyone on the same page, and also give us an opportunity to quickly address issues as they come up.
22:15:52 Rem Nightfire: haha
22:15:56 BlueGin Yifu: It makes me feel hopeful that we are meeting at all. I was so happy to hear of this group!
22:16:14 Timo Daehlie: :))
22:16:22 Talarus Luan: Aye, it has been a long time in coming, but it's here now. :)
22:16:25 Kaeru Yosuke: hey Timo what's up :)
22:16:42 Talarus Luan: I would suggest keeping the Sunday at 2PM time for now.
22:16:48 Hope Zinner: Well, I have to go. I will try to think of what I can do to help. Good luck to everyone.
22:16:52 Rem Nightfire: yes thanks for getting it together timo and talarus
22:16:55 Timo Daehlie: good kaeru .. nice you showed up
22:16:59 Klaatu Congrejo: Time suits me.
22:17:02 Timo Daehlie: let us know hope ;))
22:17:09 Hope Zinner: ok, bye.
22:17:12 Klaatu Congrejo: Bye Hope.
22:17:15 Drongle McMahon: Good time
22:17:20 Talarus Luan: Thank you all for coming and shoing your interest. :)
22:17:24 Timo Daehlie: ciao and thx for coming ;)
22:17:26 rm Sirbu: bye hope
22:17:27 Talarus Luan: *showing
22:17:34 Kyrion Yalin: bye hope
22:17:40 Rem Nightfire: bye hope
22:17:42 Hekate Galatea: sorry I missed the bulk of the meeting - I'll be sure to read the log.
22:17:47 Talarus Luan: Alright, let's keep the meeting weekly, same Dragon Time, Same Dragon Channel. ;D
22:17:52 Timo Daehlie: and off course some after talk ;)))
22:17:54 Rem Nightfire: cool
22:17:55 Klaatu Congrejo: Thank you for chairing this Talarus. Very well organised.
22:18:03 Rem Nightfire: yes great meeting
22:18:07 Klaatu Congrejo: Ha ha, dragontime.
22:18:08 Talarus Luan: Are there any questions or other comments?
22:18:11 Kaeru Yosuke: sorry maybe i'm too late too :-/
22:18:16 Timo Daehlie: so we take 2 sl pm sunday as a timestamp right ?
22:18:19 Talarus Luan: Is OK, we are logging :)
22:18:27 Rem Nightfire: good
22:18:42 rm Sirbu: for me its ok
22:18:43 Rem Nightfire: oh its on the early side for you kc
22:18:45 Shaira Babii: ok, thank you peoples, I hope things get better
22:18:51 Kyrion Yalin: it s ok forme
22:18:56 Kyrion Yalin: *for me
22:18:58 Klaatu Congrejo: So next week, we come back with our suggestions for the tasks at hand, right?
22:19:03 Talarus Luan: Okies. :)
22:19:05 Shaira Babii: yes
22:19:09 Drongle McMahon: right
22:19:10 Talarus Luan: Aye, that will be the agenda.
22:19:26 Timo Daehlie: in the meeting we can do things as well and look during the meetings at the current situations
22:19:36 Rem Nightfire: yes
22:19:37 Talarus Luan: If anyone has agenda items they come up with during the week, send them to Timo and me on a notecard. :)
22:20:12 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, we should have some sort of 'feedback report'. Feedback from friends we have made, and from the blogs and forums maybe?
22:20:26 Talarus Luan: Also, if you send us any other notecards or materials, put the term [AdZoo] in the title/name
22:20:30 Timo Daehlie: is anyone here against using group chat in order to communicate during weektimes ?
22:20:52 Rem Nightfire: not at all its a good way
22:20:54 Klaatu Congrejo: Thats probably the easiest way Timo
22:21:15 Timo Daehlie: ok and what about more group notices ?
22:21:21 Talarus Luan: Group chat is for group chatting, so I think it would be the best. We will still send out important notices via the Notice function, too
22:21:28 Kaeru Yosuke: it's OK but i think group chat is not logged when offline, is it?
22:21:35 Talarus Luan: Correct
22:21:48 Talarus Luan: So, important items will be in Notices
22:21:50 Rem Nightfire: good and we can relay them to the members of our other groups
22:21:52 Klaatu Congrejo: Thats right Kaeru.
22:22:19 Shaira Babii: or as attachment to group notices
22:22:22 Talarus Luan: We're also working on setting up an out-world location for information, like a blog or forum
22:22:26 Timo Daehlie: we can use group chat to mobilize nearby adfarms and anticipate over there
22:22:31 Timo Daehlie: like a virtual a team or something
22:22:51 Shaira Babii: I like that
22:22:52 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, a blog would be a good way to catch up Talarus.
22:22:56 Kaeru Yosuke: well Arbor has some kind of forum i think,
22:23:14 Timo Daehlie: can ask 2ndplace.com
22:23:15 Hekate Galatea: I'll be blogging this, but it's not an official blog by any means.
22:23:21 Timo Daehlie: they have great reach too
22:23:34 BlueGin Yifu: Nice to see/meet you all. I need to go now.
22:23:36 Talarus Luan: That's cool. :) We should also have some blog linkage on the main site
22:23:39 Timo Daehlie: or maybe make an adzoo blog on wordpress.com
22:23:43 Klaatu Congrejo: Bye BlueGin.
22:23:44 Timo Daehlie: ciao ciao bluegin
22:23:46 Kaeru Yosuke: they have a forum where people can tell where new ad farms arise
22:23:50 Talarus Luan: Take care and thanks for coming :)
22:24:04 Kaeru Yosuke: See you BlueGin!
22:24:06 Timo Daehlie: can you make a new blog hekate ?
22:24:18 Hekate Galatea: I can, I can host it as well if you like.
22:24:23 Talarus Luan: Aye, or I can set one up.
22:24:29 Talarus Luan: Either way. :)
22:24:30 Rem Nightfire: wow this has been great - and intense! - im going to need a RL nap to recover
22:24:33 Timo Daehlie: then maybe togehter with klaatu you can do togeter
22:24:48 Talarus Luan: Have webserver, will publish. :P
22:24:52 Klaatu Congrejo: Ha ha, me too Rem. 8.30am here, I might go back to bed, lol
22:25:06 Timo Daehlie: hehehe guys thx for coming over ;)
22:25:13 Rem Nightfire: timo i will make a draft of an ad to put out for you to review ok?
22:25:16 Timo Daehlie: especially klaatu that early ;)
22:25:27 Klaatu Congrejo: Like to get a good seat, ha ha
22:25:33 Timo Daehlie: sure rem .. we also can meet inworld to make some towers ;)
22:25:37 Talarus Luan: Alright. Any final comments before I shut off the logger?
22:25:43 Rem Nightfire: yes!
22:25:59 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, can we have a coffee machine here?
22:26:04 Rem Nightfire: haha
22:26:06 Hekate Galatea: AMEN TO THAT!
22:26:12 Timo Daehlie: hehehehehe
22:26:15 Talarus Luan: Talk to TImo. ;)
22:26:17 Timo Daehlie: i will ask tal chernov
22:26:23 Kaeru Yosuke: mmm
22:26:27 Timo Daehlie: he has made many ;)
22:26:29 Kaeru Yosuke: well i have something to say
22:26:37 Hekate Galatea: ! how about AdZoon coffee cups!
22:26:39 Kaeru Yosuke: but don't know if you discussed it already
22:26:46 Talarus Luan: Sure, go ahead, Kaeru :)
22:27:03 Kaeru Yosuke: well i'm messing with libsecondlife and bot creation lately
22:27:13 Kaeru Yosuke: i think that bots can help us in our war against ads
22:27:20 Hekate Galatea: ? how so?
22:27:25 Timo Daehlie: explain ..
22:27:31 Kaeru Yosuke: well
22:27:44 Kaeru Yosuke: for example a bot can detect the 16 sqm parcels
22:27:47 Kaeru Yosuke: and make a listing
22:27:57 Kaeru Yosuke: visit a lot of sims one by one
22:27:59 Timo Daehlie: gridwide ?
22:28:01 Kaeru Yosuke: so he can make a map
22:28:03 Drongle McMahon: Can it see the prices?
22:28:09 Kaeru Yosuke: you can have an army of bots if you wish
22:28:12 Timo Daehlie: good one drongle ;)
22:28:14 Kaeru Yosuke: yes he can
22:28:15 Klaatu Congrejo: Doesn't Land Search already fulfil that function?
22:28:28 Kaeru Yosuke: well i did NOT make a bot that does that but it's possible
22:28:31 Kaeru Yosuke: to make one
22:28:32 Timo Daehlie: yeah klaatu but it shows no owner
22:28:34 Talarus Luan: ostensibly, we have access to the landmachine.com database, which is one already built by landbots. :)
22:28:46 Drongle McMahon: In that case, I think they could be very good for data v=collection
22:29:04 Kaeru Yosuke: yes, and maybe bots could have other uses
22:29:06 Rem Nightfire: ok folks im taking off great meeting and lets give em hell!
22:29:10 Timo Daehlie: yes to prove extortion and behaviour of a plot
22:29:14 Kaeru Yosuke: it's just a matter of imagination
22:29:16 Talarus Luan: /me nodnods.
22:29:20 Timo Daehlie: ok talk soon Rem ;))
22:29:36 Rem Nightfire: so long everyone
22:29:37 Kaeru Yosuke: see you soon Rem :)
22:29:58 Talarus Luan: We have put in a few requests to Yohan, who runs the landmachine.com system, and he is providing us with a lot of that data.
22:30:07 Drongle McMahon: The problem is to record the patterns of behaviour that the farmers use to circumvents the new policy.
22:30:12 Talarus Luan: (soon, hopefully, anyway ;) )
22:30:14 Kaeru Yosuke: aha
22:30:24 Melodie Darwin: thanks everyone, have a good night
22:30:38 Talarus Luan: Fare well, melodie. Thanks for coming. :)
22:30:42 Timo Daehlie: have a goodnight melodie ;)
22:30:48 Klaatu Congrejo: Bye Melodie. Nice meeting again.
22:31:09 Kaeru Yosuke: well if any of you thinks of another way of using bots against ad farms, let's discuss it maybe the next meeting :P
22:31:17 Talarus Luan: Cool. :)
22:31:27 Timo Daehlie: yes ;)
22:31:40 Talarus Luan: Yes, I have been wanting to play with libSL, OS, and the viewer some.. not had time yet, though
22:31:45 Timo Daehlie: *makes note*
22:31:57 Klaatu Congrejo: OK. Will you be sending out an agenda for the next meet Talarus - just so we're all on the same page.
22:32:22 Hekate Galatea: Not sure if this is notable or not, but some land I have suddenly was peppered with "maintenance land" rather than ads.
22:32:35 Talarus Luan: Aye. I will do that by mid-week, once I get everything I can from anyone who wants items on it
22:32:55 Timo Daehlie: then pieces got abandonned or reclaimed hekate
22:33:00 Talarus Luan: Oh, that is because they abandoned it :)
22:33:08 Talarus Luan: or yeah, they got reclaimed :)
22:33:10 Hekate Galatea: Right - but they were from some big names in ads.
22:33:27 Timo Daehlie: some got suspended and llc took land from them
22:33:29 Hekate Galatea: And several different people at once - not just one person.
22:33:39 Timo Daehlie: multiple avater ?
22:33:41 Talarus Luan: If you are adjacent to any of them, put in a ticket, and LL will set them for sale to you for L$1/sqm if you meet the requirements
22:33:58 Hekate Galatea: I have sent them a ticket, waiting for reply.
22:34:08 Hekate Galatea: I'll be happy to get the leftover signage out of there.
22:34:14 Talarus Luan: Yeah, I have a couple tickets in, one two weeks old.
22:34:24 Talarus Luan: for some Gov Linden 16s
22:34:29 Timo Daehlie: last time i had to wait t3 weeks but you will get them
22:34:37 Klaatu Congrejo: Yes, I agree with Talarus. If you can claim them back with your adjacent land you keep it out of adfarmer hands later on.
22:34:41 Talarus Luan: They are horribly bogged down at the moment
22:34:50 Shaira Babii: it's very late for me folks, I must leave
22:35:05 Timo Daehlie: yeah .. if no one reclaims them they get offered for 16 L$ in land list
22:35:08 Kaeru Yosuke: i think i will leave too, have some business to do and then sleep!
22:35:11 Talarus Luan: Alrighty, Shaira. :) I think we are done now. Any last comments?
22:35:14 Klaatu Congrejo: Same story here Talarus, Timo. Glad to hear that, I thought LL just had a thing against me atm. ha ha
22:35:18 Timo Daehlie: shaira thcx for coming ;)
22:35:32 Timo Daehlie: kaeru and klaatu too ;)
22:35:36 Shaira Babii: bye and hugs
22:35:43 Kaeru Yosuke: hope i can read the log tomorrow :D
22:35:48 Talarus Luan: Move to close the meeting and the log, then. Any seocnds? :)
22:35:51 Timo Daehlie: :)
22:35:52 Kaeru Yosuke: thanks for inviting me, see you soon!
22:35:56 Talarus Luan: *seconds
22:36:01 Timo Daehlie: no you can end ;)
22:36:05 Talarus Luan: Okies :)
===== Close Log 2008-05-18T22:36:09.223128Z =====